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joe cool
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Yolo County CA
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 Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| No I do not have a Vanagon (...yet). Currently towing with the 15 year old Toyota Highlander. It is almost at 200k and while the power train is still good the electronics are starting to fail and I don't want to sink a bunch of time and money into that vehicle. I have a couple 50hp split buses which I love but they are not up to the job. I thought a Vanagon might be a suitable family wagon (quieter, faster, safer and more comfortable than the split bus) that would be more fun to drive than a minivan or small SUV. But we need to tow the tent trailer half a dozen times a year and I am getting the sense the Vanagon would be a poor choice in that respect. Bummer, because I think I would really enjoy a Vanagon. |
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dobryan
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Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16508
Location: Brookeville, MD
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joe cool
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Yolo County CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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I would say most trips are 150 to 200 miles each way, although we are planning to go to Joshua Tree for New Years which is about 500 miles away.
Grades on the main roads in the Sierras are up to about 7%. |
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rfoubi
Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2004
Posts: 224
Location: Rossland BC
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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DSC_1702 by Robin Foubister, on Flickr
I just towed this 1700lbs trailer 300 miles over mountain passes, some city driving etc. I have a 2.5 subaru, so almost double the hp/tq of the stock motor. With this load, it reminded me of driving with the stock engine. Early downshifts, always down to third on uphills, etc.
It pulled fine though, and I felt like with the subaru motor it was no problem. Of course braking/handling the motor doesnt matter, and I took it super easy, started braking really far in advance, and left a big margin in front.
Of course, its harder on the clutch on starts, and I would make a point of avoiding steep hill starts, etc. My trans is freshly rebuilt, and I figure yeah, itll probably take some life off the transmission, but honestly i think driving smart on flatter roads is minimally taxing on the trans.
Just thought I'd add my experience. |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| joe cool wrote: |
| 15 year old Toyota Highlander. It is almost at 200k and while the power train is still good the electronics are starting to fail and I don't want to sink a bunch of time and money into that vehicle. |
Reliability/cost of 200k mi Vanagon >vs< 200k mi Toyota?
Wow that's a conversation in itself, where the Vanagon is the absolute hands down winner if you can change the subject to "soul".
| joe cool wrote: |
| But we need to tow the tent trailer half a dozen times a year and I am getting the sense the Vanagon would be a poor choice in that respect. Bummer, because I think I would really enjoy a Vanagon. |
Is there a 1000 lb trailer that would suit your needs? 2,000 lbs seems like much too heavy (to me). Maybe (almost) OK on flat land with a stock 82 or 90 HP but not for a big engine or mountains (or both). Cost of a transaxle will be a LOT more than a craigslist camp trailer.
One thing people don't realize is that good used transaxles just don't exist out there anymore. The big-engine crowd has sucked them all up. Plus they're all just getting older and older. Nobody's has low-mile Vanagons anymore, so there's none to wreck. And the rebuilders cant find a good used parts thus you have to buy new aftermarket parts for a rebuild, which cost more and arguably don't last as long as the original VW trans parts. Transaxle issues are becoming a more important component to keep a vanagon rolling.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb
Last edited by Sodo on Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16508
Location: Brookeville, MD
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| dobryan wrote: |
If I was in your shoes
and had a few bucks
to spare I would build a Subie 2.5 or a VW 1.8t and add a cooler to the manual or auto trans and have a great time! Go for it. 👍😀👍 |
You'd have a Vanagon, which is very satisfying to most of us. Maybe if you left out the towing 2000 lbs part, or downgraded it to "once a year" and driving slow on backroads....👍😀👍
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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dobryan
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 16508
Location: Brookeville, MD
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joe cool
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Yolo County CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| Sodo wrote: |
| joe cool wrote: |
| 15 year old Toyota Highlander. It is almost at 200k and while the power train is still good the electronics are starting to fail and I don't want to sink a bunch of time and money into that vehicle. |
Reliability/cost of 200k mi Vanagon >vs< 200k mi Toyota?
Wow that's a conversation in itself, where the Vanagon is the absolute hands down winner if you can change the subject to "soul".
| joe cool wrote: |
| But we need to tow the tent trailer half a dozen times a year and I am getting the sense the Vanagon would be a poor choice in that respect. Bummer, because I think I would really enjoy a Vanagon. |
Is there a 1000 lb trailer that would suit your needs? 2,000 lbs seems like much too heavy (to me). Maybe (almost) OK on flat land with a stock 82 or 90 HP but not for a big engine or mountains (or both). Cost of a transaxle will be a LOT more than a craigslist camp trailer. |
The trailer is non-negotiable. My wife wanted one, picked it out, bought it, and it is awesome. Personally I prefer driving and camping in a bus, but with a 2 year old, an 8 year old and my wife, her plan is better. My 8 year old son and I camp in the bus several times a year.
The tent trailer is 1700 pounds dry weight, but I am sure it hits 2000 easy when loaded. I can just barely lift the tongue for a split second, so the tongue weight must be under 200 pounds. It has electric brakes and they work great.
The Highlander is a good car, but I don't love it. And while it works (barely) as the tow vehicle, it is front wheel drive with soft comfy coil springs in the back, so it is not the right vehicle for the task and therefore not the right vehicle to sink much money into.
I have been driving buses since 2000 so I know, trust, and love them. I would like to think a Vanagon is still a bus? I know the engine and transmission are in the right place. Do you still have torsion bar suspension in at least the rear? |
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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| clift_d wrote: |
| Waldi wrote: |
2wd up to 2000kg
4wd up to 2500kg
Vans with German plates alowed 4500kg total van + trailer. |
Strictly speaking, I believe those EU weights were only for turbo diesel vans and only if the they had a 'Special Certificate' from VW for uprated towing, otherwise it was 1500kg for 2WD and 2000kg for 4WD / Syncro. Also these are only for braked trailers - unbraked trailers were strictly maximum 600kg.
I'm not sure what the rated towing capacity was on US Vanagons. |
Not only for TD.
The "special certificate" is downloadable and for all vans.
Important is the "strength" of the hook. For the 2,5t on the syncro it has to be 12,7.
At all once again,
its not the big engine that does damage to the gearbox, and it is not the trailer.
It is the driver.
As you ppl over there say also, its not the gun that kills, its the ppl.
If you want to pull a trailer, dont gear your box longer.
Use 205/70-14 tires at best, or something egual.
If you like, buy another set of tires, so you can change within 15mins for trailer use.
Edit:
Here you can get also 2,5t on a 2wd if you install the syncro tranny on it.
The restriction of pulling weight is the gearing in 1st.
The van has to be able to pull the 2,5t on a steep (dont remember the grade) from stand.
Last edited by Waldi on Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:40 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:30 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| joe cool wrote: |
| Do you still have torsion bar suspension in at least the rear? |
Upgraded to coil springs front and rear. Overall the handling is much improved. Doesn't match the older Transporters on icy roads or other low traction situations but is okay with a sufficiently aggressive tread.
You do realize that the newest Vanagon is now 27 years old and the wiring while much simpler than that of the Toyota was poorly done in comparison. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32634
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:07 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| joe cool wrote: |
The trailer is non-negotiable. My wife wanted one, picked it out, bought it, and it is awesome. Personally I prefer driving and camping in a bus, but with a 2 year old, an 8 year old and my wife, her plan is better. My 8 year old son and I camp in the bus several times a year.
The tent trailer is 1700 pounds dry weight, but I am sure it hits 2000 easy when loaded. I can just barely lift the tongue for a split second, so the tongue weight must be under 200 pounds. It has electric brakes and they work great.
The Highlander is a good car, but I don't love it. And while it works (barely) as the tow vehicle, it is front wheel drive with soft comfy coil springs in the back, so it is not the right vehicle for the task and therefore not the right vehicle to sink much money into.
I have been driving buses since 2000 so I know, trust, and love them. I would like to think a Vanagon is still a bus? I know the engine and transmission are in the right place. Do you still have torsion bar suspension in at least the rear? |
I think that you need to abandon the VW Van/Bus as a viable towing vehicle.
They just simply aren't stout enough for your specified task.
You need to move up to something completely lacking soul, a four door pickup, or a large Surburban / Explorer kind of thing.
If you want some "soul" find an older classic Dodge pickup like the forest service / BLM used back in the 1960’s and 70's. Four doors, built like a tank.
Restore it and modernize it.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6573
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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No experience in this with a Vanagon I admit, but I can't imagine towing much with our one-niner! I used to pull big racecar trailers all over creation so have done an earth-lap towing, but towing a kart racing trailer with a Datsun 210 is better reference for this topic.
Great advice throughout here, though. What ever happened to AndyB here? He towed all the way from Kentucky to Canada (even Alaska I think), but it was a lighter popup trailer.
Gut feeling is excessive towing would be really hard on the transmission and driveline, but as with all mechanicals technique can mitigate much of it.
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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I am driving my syncro because of heavy towing possiblility.
Have towed stuff/cars/vans over 100 thousands of km, and now some of you tell me it is not good or not possible ?
Somebody must be wrong here. |
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E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6573
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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I didn't, Waldi, and don't doubt your experience on this, either -- despite our disagreements on other topics at times.
Experience tops conjecture, or at least it should!
What engine do you have?
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‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Waldi
Samba Member
Joined: February 28, 2014
Posts: 1752
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:15 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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AAZ with over 300k km on it with oil/intercooler and between 90-100hp.
But before the AAZ my JX with same setup pulled the same weight. |
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E1
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Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6573
Location: Westfalia, Earth
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:20 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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Wow, good to know.
We hope to race a Formula Vee sometime, and nothing would be cooler than towing it with a Vanagon. 
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
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Sodo
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2007
Posts: 9618
Location: Western WA
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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To tow 2000kg (=4400 lbs) perhaps you SHOULD own a transmission repair shop as member Waldi does.
Or perhaps move to the same city, for frequent repair access. 
| Waldi wrote: |
If you want to pull a trailer, dont gear your box longer. (taller, higher)
Use 205/70-14 tires at best, or something egual.
If you like, buy another set of tires, so you can change within 15mins for trailer use. |
This is a valid solution for those who want to tow a trailer periodically.
It is the same as a "10% gear reduction."
And the cost is much less, perhaps even "free".
Really a GREAT solution.
Except if you really like the look of your van with the 16" wheels.....then you must avert your eyes....
Using the Vanagon tire/RPM/speed calculator at http://syncro.ca/tiresize/
1) 215/70R16: 3200 RPMs = 63mph
2) 205/70-14: 3200 RPMs = 58 mph (10% less)
It's very easy to do and a GREAT solution. And also drive slower with the trailer.
_________________
'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb |
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gears
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2002
Posts: 4391
Location: Tamarack, Bend, Kailua
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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Unfortunately, if you've upgraded your brakes for towing, there's no going back to 14".
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9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
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flyboyaviator
Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2009
Posts: 154
Location: South Florida
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| Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: Re: What is the tow capacity of a Vanagon? |
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| Sure way to kill your transmission for sure, these old girls were not made to tow, is your wagon, so go for broke. |
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