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David_nc_72std Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2015 Posts: 841 Location: Winston-Salem, NC
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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bnam wrote: |
Looking thru my pics...
The slot is off 225deg. So now that I've flipped the disti around 180, I'm off only 45, which is actually not a bad position as there enough rotation space both ways.
So my question remains - is there a downside (technically) to flipping the orientation the way I did by turning around the upper shaft? If there isn't, it sure beats hammering that pin out to turn the drive 180deg.
Now, that the engine is running reasonably well, I need to attend to the brakes which don't work well, pull slightly and pulsate.
Byas |
The only real problem with having the orientation wrong is if you have a distributor that has retarded timing on the #3 cylinder, AND the mark on the distributor body for the #1 cylinder doesn't line up near the actual #1 spark plug wire. If both of those conditions apply, then you would be retarding the timing on the wrong cylinder, but I'm not sure if VW even made a distributor with retarded timing on the #3 cylinder for the dual port engines. |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Getting all the tins, seals, and grommets is on my list of to-dos. The rear engine seal install will have to wait until I do the body work as the channel had rotted off.
My aim is to get it to a similar condition to my 71 vert --
Byas |
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bnam Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2006 Posts: 2936 Location: El Dorado Hills CA/ Bangalore, India
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Getting all the tins, seals, and grommets is on my list of to-dos. The rear engine seal install will have to wait until I do the body work as the channel had rotted off.
My aim is to get it to a similar condition to my 71 vert --
Byas |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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bnam wrote: |
I picked up a 65 Ghia this week which came with a later DP (likely 1600) engine, I need to get it tuned up right to pass the basic idle smog test.
I plan to tune the car tomorrow starting with setting the valve clearances.
The carb is a Bocar 34pict3. The distributor is a 211905205S with an SVDA vac can with the number 309 stamped on the arm.
The crank pulley is 6.75" (smaller than the 7" stock one on my 71 vert) and has one mark on it.
I'm trying to determine the timing specs for this setup.
As you can see in the pic, the vac can was stupidly connected to both the advance and the retard ports. But, the tube had pulled off on the retard side. It did run, but must have been tuned rich to compensate for the air leak (?).
I've replaced the carb for now with a rebuild German Solex 34pict3 (vw325_2) that was running well on my 71 vert.
According to a pdf chart I found on this site, the 205S distributor should come with a 461 stamped vac can with 8-12 deg of advance. I've not found any reference on a 309 can, but that's what's on there. Any idea what the specs are for a 309 can?
I'd like to know what setting I should time the car to -- 0deg TDC or 7.5 deg BTDC? Which year/s used this smaller crank pulley? What is the marking likely to be? TDC? other? (I'll try to use the pencil method to find tdc and measure for myself tomorrow, but confirmation would be good).
Oldvolkshome data suggests that the 205S is a substitute for the 205Q, but the latter is listed as a DVDA, while the PDF and the current config on my sample make the 205S out to be an SVDA disti.
Thanks!
Byas
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If it's just idle test then try pulling 2 plug wires and that'll drop the emissions. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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bluebus86 Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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whow!! thats one clean nice looking motor in your red car, You have set a high standard. thanks for sharing the photo, now I got to start cleaning up my engine!!!!
good luck with the smog _________________ Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
If it's just idle test then try pulling 2 plug wires and that'll drop the emissions. |
Not hardly - unburned hydrocarbons will be through the roof !!! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Cusser wrote: |
Volks Wagen wrote: |
If it's just idle test then try pulling 2 plug wires and that'll drop the emissions. |
Not hardly - unburned hydrocarbons will be through the roof !!! |
I'm taking a wild guess that Mr. Volks Wagen was making a joke or being sarcastic...! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Volks Wagen Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2013 Posts: 2926 Location: Germany
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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vamram wrote: |
Cusser wrote: |
Volks Wagen wrote: |
If it's just idle test then try pulling 2 plug wires and that'll drop the emissions. |
Not hardly - unburned hydrocarbons will be through the roof !!! |
I'm taking a wild guess that Mr. Volks Wagen was making a joke or being sarcastic...! |
No, jayzus I missed that HC reference totally. I've not been thinking right today since passing a massive breached turd following a pretty brutal chilli con carne I ate last evening out of a tin cos the wife was late home yesterday. I think it was the bread, cheese, banana, joghurt and half a pack of choco chip cookies I ate down on top of it must have compacted the lot. _________________ 1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7304 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Volks Wagen wrote: |
No, jayzus I missed that HC reference totally. I've not been thinking right today since passing a massive breached turd following a pretty brutal chilli con carne I ate last evening out of a tin cos the wife was late home yesterday. I think it was the bread, cheese, banana, joghurt and half a pack of choco chip cookies I ate down on top of it must have compacted the lot. |
ROFLAMAO!!!! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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Cusser wrote: |
Volks Wagen wrote: |
If it's just idle test then try pulling 2 plug wires and that'll drop the emissions. |
Not hardly - unburned hydrocarbons will be through the roof !!! |
Just put the spark plugs at the end of the exhaust. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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sneak a little CAT in there and the tester will look to see if the probe fell out- worked on my Fiat after it was labeled a Gross polluter. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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williamM wrote: |
sneak a little CAT in there and the tester will look to see if the probe fell out- worked on my Fiat after it was labeled a Gross polluter. |
Someone here in Arizona had a universal type catalytic converter welded up so he could bolt it to his header for the yearly emission test, and passed all the time. Then he returned home and removed it and installed the exhaust.
Great testing program here, goes back to 1967 year, but only in 2 counties. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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heimlich VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016 Posts: 6621 Location: Houston, Texas
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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No testing here on anything older than 25 years old. If it doesn't pass emissions then wait a few years and it won't need to. _________________ www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here) |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31379 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:49 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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kawfee wrote: |
No testing here on anything older than 25 years old. If it doesn't pass emissions then wait a few years and it won't need to. |
Arizona - those 2 largest counties - originally exempted vehicles over 14 years old. So my 2 VWs and my 1979 Toyota truck were completely exempt.
Then Arizona changed the law, had to scamper and add an air pump to that truck, it didn't have one. Had to have an air pump there, whether it operated or not ! _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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David_nc_72std wrote: |
The only real problem with having the orientation wrong is if you have a distributor that has retarded timing on the #3 cylinder, AND the mark on the distributor body for the #1 cylinder doesn't line up near the actual #1 spark plug wire. If both of those conditions apply, then you would be retarding the timing on the wrong cylinder, but I'm not sure if VW even made a distributor with retarded timing on the #3 cylinder for the dual port engines. |
I just ran a low mileage 1972-1973 113905205AN DVDA on my distributor machine. It showed #3 cylinder lobe was retarded 3*. That surprised me. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51153 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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wcfvw69 wrote: |
David_nc_72std wrote: |
The only real problem with having the orientation wrong is if you have a distributor that has retarded timing on the #3 cylinder, AND the mark on the distributor body for the #1 cylinder doesn't line up near the actual #1 spark plug wire. If both of those conditions apply, then you would be retarding the timing on the wrong cylinder, but I'm not sure if VW even made a distributor with retarded timing on the #3 cylinder for the dual port engines. |
I just ran a low mileage 1972-1973 113905205AN DVDA on my distributor machine. It showed #3 cylinder lobe was retarded 3*. That surprised me. |
Me too, tell us more One single case?, or a trend? _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: Help me tune to pass emissions |
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busdaddy wrote: |
wcfvw69 wrote: |
David_nc_72std wrote: |
The only real problem with having the orientation wrong is if you have a distributor that has retarded timing on the #3 cylinder, AND the mark on the distributor body for the #1 cylinder doesn't line up near the actual #1 spark plug wire. If both of those conditions apply, then you would be retarding the timing on the wrong cylinder, but I'm not sure if VW even made a distributor with retarded timing on the #3 cylinder for the dual port engines. |
I just ran a low mileage 1972-1973 113905205AN DVDA on my distributor machine. It showed #3 cylinder lobe was retarded 3*. That surprised me. |
Me too, tell us more One single case?, or a trend? |
I restored another 205AN today. It also showed a retard on cylinder three on the distributor machine. I also checked a 205AJ bug distributor. It DIDN'T have a retard on 3.. Odd..
All three of these distributors were virgin, never been disassembled before units too. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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