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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: Fan shroud flaps |
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When I'm to the point of rebuilding and installing my engine, I am planning on using an aftermarket 36hp style chrome fan shroud. It didn't come with the thermostat controlled flaps. Living in the PNW, and by reading all the posts on here about the cooling tinwork, that a correctly functioning set of flaps are vital for the correct warm up and cooling of the engine. So with that said, what fan shroud (I DONT have an original one) do I need to get the flaps from? If they aren't a direct fit, I can modify them to work, but I'm hopeing someone has done this before and can guide me in the correct direction. I'm also using the heater boxes to direct heated air up to the windshield for defrost, as I incorporated ducts into my dash.
Thanks, Ken |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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Personally, you could find a factory fan shroud in the classifieds on this site cheap. You could also source the flaps and thermostat there as well. The factory style fan shrouds are superior to any aftermarket shrouds.
Running the thermostat and flaps is a great idea. There was a reason those smart Germans installed them. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I know your right about the original shroud being superior, but the daughter and I are kinda "set" on the chrome stuff, and I asked about getting a factory one chromed and it is WAY out of my price range at $700.00. Includes taking it apart, straightening it out, and then chroming i (after I found one)t. As long as I can get the flaps to work, I'll be o.k. With the aftermarket stuff. I've already fit it into the chrome cylinder covers, etc. We're building a street buggy and I'm kinda a chrome whore. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I'd try to get a chrome shroud with the air directional vanes in it then. The flaps that fit inside fit either dog house or non dog house shrouds. The difference is the linkage behind the shroud. One's for dog house and the others for non dog house. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4026 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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That chrome shroud will be rust colored in a short time so do yourself a favor and find a stock shroud and paint it nicely.... _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I've searched for a chrome one with flaps installed and never found one.
We have stuff at the shop I work at that protects even the very cheapest chrome plating, so I'm not too worried about it rusting.
I was offered a set for the cost of shipping so I'll play with it, when that set arrives. |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8687 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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stevemariott Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2003 Posts: 1049 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I believe the flaps are interchangeable between doghouse and non doghouse - as stated earlier, the linkage behind the shroud is different. Make sure you get all of the pieces, as there are more beyond just the flaps and thermostat.
Adapting the stock setup to an aftermarket 36hp shroud isn't difficult, I've done it a couple of times. It's helpful to have a stock shroud around to compare fitment for drilling holes. There is a thread or two on the Samba about other people fitting flaps to aftermarket shrouds, dig around and I'm sure you'll find some pics.
The Scat shrouds are nice.
chopperimpala wrote: |
When I'm to the point of rebuilding and installing my engine, I am planning on using an aftermarket 36hp style chrome fan shroud. It didn't come with the thermostat controlled flaps. Living in the PNW, and by reading all the posts on here about the cooling tinwork, that a correctly functioning set of flaps are vital for the correct warm up and cooling of the engine. So with that said, what fan shroud (I DONT have an original one) do I need to get the flaps from? If they aren't a direct fit, I can modify them to work, but I'm hopeing someone has done this before and can guide me in the correct direction. I'm also using the heater boxes to direct heated air up to the windshield for defrost, as I incorporated ducts into my dash.
Thanks, Ken |
_________________ 1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4006 Location: WA
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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Put flaps in if this is a daily driver but save yourself the headache if its just a weekend fun thing as it will warm up and run fine but it may take 3-4 min.s. Spray the cheap chrome with clear paint so it lasts. 1st thing I do when I pull a motor is remove the flaps (it's what I do save all the posts). |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I DO NOT run flaps on any engine I have run in the Dunebuggy, but I don't drive when it below 45*. It is my opinion the flaps are part of the heater system, not the cooling system. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Q-Dog Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010 Posts: 8687 Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:42 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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My buggy with no flaps takes 10-15 miles running 60mph to get the oil fully up to operating temperature in 65°F ambient temps. With ambiet temperature around 55° the oil never warms up fully if I'm only driving in town. _________________ Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76760 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:58 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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Dave, do you remove the thermostat from all your cars?
My Subaru have a very high idle when I first start it and then it drops after a few miles when the "cold water temp" light goes out. I asked the dealer why it does that and was told it's to help it reach "operating" temp quicker so it reduces wear and increased fuel economy.
I see no downside to running OE flaps and thermostat.
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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+1 for flaps and thermostats!
Like Dave says, take the thermostat out of your family water pumper and go ahead and see if the dealer will honour the warranty when (not if) you have problems.
If your driving style is only in +80* F weather with your foot stuffed down the carb 90% of the time you don't need temperature control. The rest of us do.
I fought with trying to get my Buggy to take a tune for months. Every time I stopped at a light or stop sign it stalled, idled too fast, too slow, sputtered, stumbled, back fired whatever. Ran too rich, too lean and got horrible mileage. I blamed carbs, linkages, fuel, fuel pump, distributor, wires, plugs you name it. I had to retune it every time I took it out and it was different after every run. I changed parts out several times. No luck.
Why? It finally dawned on me that it was because it was never at the same temperature twice!
I scrounged up a complete thermostat setup and installed ALL the factory tins. No more stumble, fart, back fire, idles perfect, no stalls or missing. Just tuned it once and it ran beautifully all summer!
Now to find electric chokes for the Kadrons... |
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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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Thanks for all the info guys, I know there is more than just the flaps in the equasion, it was just easier to type "flaps" as the generic for the whole setup. I WILL be running the flaps for a couple of reasons.... 1, I am a California guy now living in a snowy/rainy winter, spring, and fall area. I want the buggy to warm up to the correct temperature for driving around town. No not in the snow, but in the fall and spring, in the mornings when I will be taking Bella (ite her Buggy) to school in the mornings, mid 30 degree weather is common. 2 I know what happens to moto s when they are not correctly fully warmed up to operating temperature when it's cold out, moisture and condensation doesn't burn off and out of the motor causing potential problems. If I run it with no flaps ant it's say 35-40 degrees out, that fan blowing will most likely have a windchill factor of below 30 degrees constantly blowing on the motor, can't possibly heat up correctly.
Now those who are in a warm climate, or only drive during the warm months understandably don't need them as bad as I feel I need them?? |
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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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Well, I'm a single finger typer and I guess that was a whole lot of extra unneeded info I just typed...sorry. |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13382 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:12 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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chopperimpala wrote: |
Now those who are in a warm climate, or only drive during the warm months understandably don't need them as bad as I feel I need them?? |
I live in Phoenix and have the flaps, thermostats, stove pipes and working warm air flaps in the oil baths on all my VW's. There was a reason VW had these parts installed. They were not installed on only VW's delivered to colder markets.
Even in the summertime heat, they make a big difference in starting up the engine in the morning and immediately driving off w/out cold engine symptoms. _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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oprn Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016 Posts: 12632 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:43 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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chopperimpala wrote: |
Now those who are in a warm climate, or only drive during the warm months understandably don't need them as bad as I feel I need them?? |
Or maybe they are like I was back in the '70s when I was way smarter than all the engineers VW employed! And too proud to admit I could be wrong.
Been there, done that, not going back. |
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Ken Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2005 Posts: 129 Location: Spokane, WA.
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I agree totally that the shrouds should be used, even in warm climates, I was just referring to those posting on my thread mentioning they aren't needed. |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5445 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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chopperimpala wrote: |
Thanks for all the info guys, I know there is more than just the flaps in the equasion, it was just easier to type "flaps" as the generic for the whole setup. I WILL be running the flaps for a couple of reasons.... 1, I am a California guy now living in a snowy/rainy winter, spring, and fall area. I want the buggy to warm up to the correct temperature for driving around town. No not in the snow, but in the fall and spring, in the mornings when I will be taking Bella (ite her Buggy) to school in the mornings, mid 30 degree weather is common. 2 I know what happens to moto s when they are not correctly fully warmed up to operating temperature when it's cold out, moisture and condensation doesn't burn off and out of the motor causing potential problems. If I run it with no flaps ant it's say 35-40 degrees out, that fan blowing will most likely have a windchill factor of below 30 degrees constantly blowing on the motor, can't possibly heat up correctly.
Now those who are in a warm climate, or only drive during the warm months understandably don't need them as bad as I feel I need them?? |
One alternate idea would be to run the fan ring thermostat system originally used with the 36 horse (and early 40 horse) fan shrouds. You would want the hardware from an older 40 horse including one top case stud that was extra long to act as the pivot. Not only do you get a thermostat control system when it is cold you get a venturi ring for your shroud when its hot. _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15278 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Fan shroud flaps |
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I have not run thermostat or flaps on any VW engine I have owned in the last 30 years. I'm not going to get into arguments or disputes about it. As I said above it is my opinion the flaps are part of the heater system, not the cooling system. Most of my engines currently have the 36HP style fan shrouds. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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