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Engine Block Studs
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:56 pm    Post subject: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

I'm tearing down my 1990 2.1L and am finally getting to splitting the case. My original post was going to be to ask how to remove some of the studs (some have really short ends, can't fit two locking nuts onto them), but after some searching through the forums I found some pictures that are making me think I've been pulling the studs out for no reason. (notably this one

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from here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=681674)

So my new question is, can I just split the case after removing the nuts from the studs? Or was I right in thinking I had to remove the studs? At this point I don't know what answer I'm hoping for, having pulled more than half the studs already. It would be nice not to have to pull the few remaining.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

You don't have to remove studs to split the case. The picture confuses me for several reasons. You say "this stud" and the picture has - what, 20 of them? Which are you talking about. Also the picture confuses because it leads me to believe that is your block and its already split. Clear things up a bit for best answers to your questions.

Welcome.

Doug
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Hi Doug,

Thanks for the help. The picture was one I found on the forums (the link to which I posted below the pic). It was "this picture" that led me to think the studs didn't need to be removed. Sorry, should've been clearer.

Guess I'm closer to splitting the case than I'd thought. I'll need to replace some studs though, the vice grips did some damage...
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

While on the subject of splitting the case, is it recommended to remove the cylinder head studs first? It seems to me like they could be damaged pretty easy, but I'm struggling to find a good way to remove them. Any tips?
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marcotheturbosteamengine
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Why are you removing any studs? Just undo all the nuts and the case with come apart.
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tmart
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

I was removing them because I mistakenly thought they had to be removed to split the case, regretting that now. My reasoning for the cylinder head studs is that I don't want to damage them when the case is apart.
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Nope. However, this block has legendary status that people forget one bolt and cannot get it apart. Read all the threads and plan to whack the block with a plastic hammer along the seam before it might come apart. Worth a read...

Doug
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

STOP!!!!

You are going to end up with a boat anchor if you don't get some knowledge of these engines before continuing.

Go buy this book.....
https://www.amazon.com/Rebuild-Volkswagen-air-Cooled-Engine-models/dp/0895862255

No, it isn't water cooled but you will learn a lot about the VW Boxer engine from reading it.

The studs are supposed to be short for the cap/acorn nuts seal in the water.

Also buy the Bentley manual for the Vanagon.

https://www.amazon.com/Bentley-Paper-Repair-Manual-Vanagon/dp/B0044A60QU

One cannot proceed blindly on a full rebuild and expect any level of success.

Sadly damaged studs will need to be replaced. I STRONGLY suggest you pay a machine shop to do the task, they can be a real bugger at times.

I wish you the best but please take a moment to learn about the engine before continuing.

Dave
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:37 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Buying John Muir's Idiot Book isn't a bad idea for the VW newbie either. There again it is aircooled specific, but a lot of the info can be carried over to the waterboxer engine.

The studs all just stay in the case, keep the case halves mated together for storage and place the engine where the head studs can not be damaged. Note that the head studs are subject to corrosion which can cause the stud to snap, so it isn't a bad idea to remove them for inspection. Tencentlife has probably removed as many head studs as anyone, so hopefully he will chime in with his techniques.
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tmart
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys.

I do have the Bentley, but didn't find much in it about disassembly (at least to the granularity I was looking/hoping for). With regards to the rebuild, I was planning on doing those steps "less" blindly, and researching a little more. That Tom Wilson book looks pretty good. Is there that much risk of disassembling wrong that would cause bad damage (aside from ruining the studs I ruined...)?
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

tmart, you can still buy the Compleat Idiot book…I worn mine out back in the day. If I buy a new one, am I going to end up hunting up something air-cooled to tinker with?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Keep in mind that the Bentley manuals seem to build upon each other.

I believe they ASSUME that you are already familiar with the VW family and when a new model/variation was introduced, they simply told you about the newer model for the most part.

The older VW Type I Bentley books were inches thick covering body repair, soft top installation, etc.

The newer model books are by comparison paper thin.
While much has changed over time, much has already been talked about or remained the same.

Taking apart at VW Boxer engine is a process that has remained relatively unchanged since the 1950's. Sure, they added a water jacket to the WaterBoxer engine but they still come apart in the same fashion.

A tip?
DO NOT insert screw drivers or pry bars between the case halves to force them apart! Do not, do not, do not.
Tap upon the flanges molded for that purpose, tap upon the exposed studs (using brass or plastic hammer) etc.

I understand the temptation to insert a wedge, but don't. You will damage the sealing flange and possibly warp the case.

Dave
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tmart
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Been a bit since I've had the opportunity to post. No worries on prying the case open, it took weirdly little effort. Came apart on its own really once I unscrewed everything.

Just as an update, here are some pictures of the case after cleaning. I regret not taking any before pics but you'll just have to trust that it made a big difference haha.

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Tylerray__
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

hows your build going?! bout to hop into mine, any more hiccups you ran into along the way?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

As is often the case, the Bentley will provide the necessary specs and other crucial information for a task, but completely overlooks the step-by-step procedure to accomplish it, esp. for a relative WBX newbie.

I suggest you check out the corresponding Haynes manuals covering the Vanagon: http://campwestfalia.com/vanagon-workshop-manuals/

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Between the requisite Bentley, the more helpful Haynes, and perhaps Muir’s book, you’ll have nearly all you need to continue with your teardown and rebuild.

Good luck!
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tmart
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Tyler, the build's coming along slowly. No more hiccups exactly, but small things just pop up that take more time than anticipated. I'm putting in 2.2L pistons so that's adding a little to the mix too. I'm hoping that by the end of this weekend the engine will be completely together, but that might be wishful thinking. Then it's all got to go back in the van...

Jeffrey, that might explain why I feel like I'm the only one that Bentley hasn't helped out too much. It's definitely useful, and having the specs is necessary, but I've been feeling like Bentley makes perfect sense after I've completed the process I'm reading about. Now that I'm putting it all back together, Bentley seems clear enough to me, but Haynes probably would've sped everything up during the disassembly.
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Tylerray__
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

tmart wrote:
Tyler, the build's coming along slowly. No more hiccups exactly, but small things just pop up that take more time than anticipated. I'm putting in 2.2L pistons so that's adding a little to the mix too...


Sweet, did you buy the kit from GoWesty? If so did you need to have any work done to your block? Thought about going the same route with mine..

I like seeing the pics of yours cleaned up lol, thats what I'll be diving into tomorrow Shocked
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tmart
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Yep, GW kit. Not sure about machining yet, though that was a worry of mine. Seem to be getting some conflicting answers on this thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689393&highlight=

I'm hoping to do some test assembling after Thanksgiving, assuming my crank gets back from the shop in time. I'll know then and post some updates.

Ya, the clean case is really nice. When I started I thought there was a slight chance someone had painted the case black haha
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IdahoDoug
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

Tmart,

What else are you replacing? I'm getting a little nervous for you and this is a really good time to get some advice. What work are you having done on the crank, and is the machine shop going to just hand you the crank or are you going to have them do the main bearings? What about the rods? Cylinders new? Etc. You might kinda lay out your plan here as while this is a simple engine the split block adds some complexity to a rebuild.

Doug
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject: Re: Engine Block Studs Reply with quote

The GoWesty 2.2 kit has no rods......

http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=&id=23203

Do NOT reuse the 2.1 rods!
They have a stretch design one use rod bolt, they will fail after reuse.

VanCafe has ready to go 1.9 rods.

http://www.van-cafe.com/connecting-rods-set-of-4-see-description

Dave
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

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