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Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels
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MarkWard
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Location: Palm Beach County, Florida
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

Before installing the Espar, we'd use the Little Buddy only to take the chill off in the evening before turning in. We'd light it and wait till the chill was out of the air and shut it off. If we were sitting up reading, if it cooled off too much, we would light it again. Seems we were getting 3 evenings out of a camp bottle with the Little Buddy using it this way.

Oddly, making coffee in the am, the westy stove actually puts out a lot of heat boiling water. It is not uncommon even on the coldest morning to see 70 degrees on the thermostat mounted on the spice rack over the stove. Don't use your stove for heat. Just saying it puts out some BTU's.
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shagginwagon83
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

raoul mitgong wrote:
Shaggin,

One byproduct of burning hydrocarbons is H2O. No way around that. You are pumping water into the cabin with a Buddy. The propex/espar/webasto has a heat exchanger so the heat is sent into the cabin while the water, CO, CO2, and other byproducts are sent out the exhaust tube to the outside.

All that Buddy water will condensate on your windows, metal panels, behind the kitchen, door seals, etc. Bad things that can happen with the Buddy are;
1. Freezing your doors shut.
2. Speeding up the rusting of your van.
3. Getting poisoned/killed if there is a failure in your equipment.

If you don't have the $ for a Propex, try to find a friend with a house or apartment that would be willing to run an extension cord out a window to your van. Help with their utilities and they might be stoked. Use a small electric heater with a thermostat (these are cheap) and sleep dry, warm, and safe.

-d


Thanks for the response. I am really concerned about the rusting of the van (and my life of course).

I just signed this week for my first full time job. I am living with the parents currently. I plan on doing the propex next fall or maybe early spring. I'll use my buddy as you guys suggested - not during sleep.
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Aloha
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Steve M.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

I was just going to say about snowing and the build up blocking your "vent" windows sealing you inside with your exhaust gases...one picture worth a thousand words if the problem is understood.
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

Glad to hear that you are not sleeping with a little buddy running. I look forward
to your posts for many years. 😀
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MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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pinetreeporsche
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
There are about 5000 CO poisoning incidents a year in U.S. And 500 fatalities.


Anyone heard of a person or persons who died in a VW or another larger van, from combustion products??
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

pinetreeporsche wrote:



Anyone heard of a person or persons who died in a VW or another larger van, from combustion products??


You know you can search for this kind of information?


Quote:
A family at the Speedway this weekend didn't expect a deadly gas to fill their camper. One person died and several more were hurt when carbon monoxide filled their camper outside the Indianapolis 500 Sunday.

Four family members went to sleep in an RV Saturday night. Sunday morning one of them, 43-year-old Michael Thies, never woke up. The other three in the RV were hospitalized with carbon monoxide poisoning. — https://www.wthr.com/article/rv-tips-to-prevent-carbon-monoxide-poisoning


Quote:
Deputies say 75-year-old William E. Miller of Windber, Pa., was pronounced dead Thursday morning at his RV. His wife, 76-year-old, Ruth L. Miller, was taken to a hospital in Cumberland. — http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2013/08/08/camper-dies-from-carbon-monoxide-poisoning/


Quote:
Two Cloquet residents died of possible carbon monoxide poisoning in their camper on Saturday morning near Brookston, Minn..

The St. Louis County sheriff’s office reported that Richard Smith, 67, and Pamela Smith, 65, were found unresponsive in their camper at 7:19 a.m. Saturday. Despite rescue efforts by friends and first responders, they were pronounced dead at the scene, according to the sheriff’s office. - http://www.twincities.com/2017/06/05/in-northeast-...poisoning/

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dobryan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

There is a term called survivor bias. Those that say ‘I survived that behavior’ are never countered by those that are dead from it...
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Dave O
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MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

They all died nice and warm though....... 🤔

Dave
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DanHoug
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject: Re: Buddy heater, fridge, O2 and CO levels Reply with quote

the 2 two MN people died from CO poisoning due to using a genset in an unvented compartment in their RV. well it WAS vented with leaks to the interior.

more on the CO levels from the Buddy. while my home CO detector in the van did not spike off of zero, i recently used an industrial CO monitor and held it in the heat above the Buddy while on. it registered as high as 19ppm CO. fairly low from an exposure standpoint, turning on the stove to cook something generates WAY more CO (up to 1600ppm) but it is all good to be aware of. bottom line: don't sleep with an unvented heater or the stove on.

an important aspect of CO is to remember it is a true chemical poison vs the effect from lowered oxygen, which is 'merely' suffocation. the key difference being you can die from a 1 minute exposure to very high CO (above 12,000ppm), similar to orally ingesting a poison.

-dan
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