Engine tuneup/repair/rebuild advice needed!

[Jonasand]

Before ↑

After ↑

Here's the pipe side after removing the gasket. ↑

I sprayed gasket remover and let it sit for 5 hours, then used a paint scraper with a metal blade to scrape it off. In the end I had to use the sharp corner of the paint scraper to remove the last stuck fibres, I did it very carefully but there where some unavoidable scratches with this method. I'm hoping that these scratches won't matter. If anyone has experiences with this stuff, I'd love your opinion!!!

I sprayed with gasket remover continuously while working to wet down the asbestos fibers so they wouldn't fly into the air. So I probably inhaled some gasket remover, not so healthy either, but now most of the gasket is off so I'm happy.

I'm thinking maybe to use some sandpaper to get the last of the gasket off.

Good idea?
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79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Jonasand]

Hi everyone and thanks for all the past help I've gotten.

I'm going have to put my motor together quickly since I can't afford the rent for my studio space anymore. (Where my motor is being kept)

Hopefully I can get my motor back in the bus in a couple of months time when my contract ends. But there is a lot of work to do, and I'm eager to ask some questions. Hopefully there are still people willing to put their wise words and opinions in as I really need your help.

Just to sum up where I'm at right now;
I've had my heads rebuilt and they are waiting on my cylinders getting honed by a machine shop. Cylinders will be ready sometime next week.
I will not split the case, since the cam didn't have too much wear and I'm going to assume the bearings are OK too.

Issue #1
From what I read most people would proceed to remove the flywheel, change the main rear gasket and check endplay, and perhaps change the front fan side seal too.
However I'm tempted to not do this since I do not have any leak from either front or rear as far as I can tell
(Flywheel is perfectly clean and fan is clean too)
And since the cam is OK wouln't that also indicate that it's not mandatory to change the seals yet?
Also can I check/guess if endplay is OK without removing the flywheel?

Please let me know what you think!

Issue #2

I figured I'd change the the oil filler tube gasket.
I've removed the oil filler tube but the gasket is stuck on both the case side and tube side. If I'm not mistaking it seems to be made of asbestos.

How do I remove this gasket relatively safely, without denting the metal surfaces and without inhaling asbestos?
Does "Gasket remover" spray work? What kind of tools should I use for scraping?

Issue #3

I need to replace the dipstick boot. I've read that the viton one from airheadparts is good.

These two are available in Sweden
https://vwcustomspeed.com/produkt/Gummi-balg-oljesticka-t-4
https://www.classicvw.se/tatning-oljesticka-t2-med-t4-motor/product_details.php/products_id/3764

The first link has the same part number as the airheads one.
The second link looks to be the same shape as the airheads one but not as matte
https://airheadparts.com/vw-part/viton-dipstick-boot-021-119-245/

Which one would you go with?

Issue #4

Is this the correct gasket kit for my 79 bus?
https://vwcustomspeed.com/produkt/Packningssats-20-t-2-79-

Are the pushrod tube seals in this kit Viton ones?

How is the quality of the gaskets in this set compared to the original asbestos ones? Am I better of keeping the asbestos ones if they are not damaged?
Or should/could I even replace some gaskets with Hylomar Blue? Or should I use Hylomar blue in addition to a gasket either orignal asbestos or from the gasket set?


- I've removed the oil pump to check if there is wear on it (like they do in the bug me video) It seems fine. However the gasket has a small dent in the side. Should I replace it with the one in the gasket kit above.

Just a bit worried about quality and having oil leakage after I put the motor back in.


Issue #5

Is there a procedure that is recommended for the breather chimney? Or just replace the gasket with another cork gasket. Or should I open it and clean it or something else?


Sorry for the long post, I hope it's readable...
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79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Jonasand]

Ok, I had to take a break because of family but I'm back again and my heads are also back from JPM. Here's what they look like;

Here's a list of the work done

Machine washed heads
Glass blasting of combustion chambers
Fly cutting of combustion sealing area x4
Mira-cutting of valve seats x8
New intake valve seats (made from alu-bronze) x4
Re grinding of intake valves x4
New exhaust valves x4
New exhaust valve guides x4


The new valve seats have the same expansion rate as aluminium so they won't unseat as easily as steel ones. I was told that the exhaust valve seats usually don't fail on type 4 engines so he did not replace them.

I was told the fly cut removed about 0,2 mm (0.0079") and that it would not change compression ratios.


I have a couple of questions;

Wildthings mentioned a few thousands of an inch as OK for flycutting without changing engine parameters, such as compression and valve train geometry.
Do you think 0.0079" is still OK?

There are some horizontal marks in the sealing surface that were not removed by flycutting (see the last picture). Are these something to worry about?

I will have to measure the piston rings myself to get the dimensions.
The VW stores in sweden have these dimensions available in 94 mm rings;

94 x 1,5 x 1,5 x 3,0
94 x 1,5 x 2,0 x 4,0
94 x 1,75 x 2,0 x 4,0
94 x 1,75 x 2,0 x 3,5

So for example in a 94 x 1,5 x 2,0 x 4,0 ring set the first number is of course the ring diameter. But what are the other numbers? Is it the ring height in mm?
Is below a correct reading?
1,5 = upper compression height in mm
2,0 = lower compression height in mm
4.0 = Oil scraper ring height in mm

So to know what ring set would fit my pistons I'm guessing I should measure "side clearance" with the rings removed. Then if I withdraw the side clearance numbers from the Bentley I should get the correct height to get for each ring in the ring set.

Here are the side clearance numbers in the bentley
Upper Compression 0.06-0.09 mm
Lower compression 0.04-0.07 mm
Oil scraper 0.02-0.05 mm

To measure I should get a vernier caliper. Should I get a regular or a digital? How precise does it need to be and how many decimals do I need if I'm going to use it for this and other measurements in the future on the bus?

Thanks for any help!
_________________
79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Wildthings]

[Jonasand]

[Wildthings]

Some may have been replaced and I would bet that some of your valve stem tips have concave wear. Concave where is bad here as well as it makes it where you can not set the valve lash accurately with a feeler gauge. If you have .005" of concavity and set your lash with a feeler gauge you will actually have .006 + .005 = .011" of lash, which leads to more noise and more wear, while hurting performance.

You can grind your valve stems tips flat with a Dremel being careful to contain the grinding dust, or you can use valve stem lash caps, or you can use Elephant foot adjusting screws. FWIW I run the 10mm Elephant foot screws which were available here on The Samba a few years ago. They came from Europe somewhere.

[Jonasand]

Rocker/adjuster #1 above

Rocker/adjuster #2

Rocker/adjuster #2 exhaust closeup

Rocker/adjuster #3

Rocker/adjuster #4

Rocker/adjuster #4 closeup

I've inspected my valve adjusters and would like to know what you make of their wear pattern.

#4 Exhaust has some deeper marks, like its been hammered.
What do you think was the cause?

#2 Exhaust has a wear pattern that goes out to the very edge of the adjuster, it could have gone over the edge even, I don't know. Why is this? Because of excessive valve guide clearance? Also a bit from the edge there is a smaller dent/cavity.

The rest of them don't have any deeper marks and they all have about the same wear pattern, but are they considered normal or excessive wear? Do they indicate anything?

Will I need to resurface any or all of them?
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79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Wildthings]

[SGKent]

you adjust the valves with the screws. You can only take off so much from a lifter. The surface of a new cam and lifter is hardened. Once that is ground the softer material below wears faster. The reason the lifters are high in the center is to delay the process where they become concave as they wear, and the outer edges wear into the cam lobes. We used to grind them in a valve grinding machine with a degree or two of angle on them. I've done it by hand too but you have to have a good grinding stone, and really steady hands like when you are sharpening drill bits by hand.
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“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin

[Jonasand]

[Wildthings]

[Jonasand]

Wildthings, I'm not sure I understand how the regrinding works...

If the crown wears down, the lifter gets shorter right? Then it won't be able to lift the valve as high. Then if you would take that same already shortened lifter and regrind it like you did, the lifter would get even shorter. How can the lifter regain lift by taking off material?

Is it because the spring in the hydraulic lifter compensates and it just pumps up more?

If so then the regrinding would not work on solid lifters?

May I ask, what equipment/method did you use?

Do you grind a bevel on completely new lifters too or only after they wear down the crown to extend cam life?

My cam seems to be a stock VW cam for the GE 2.0 L engine with hydraulic lifters
It reads; 022 109 101 A


timvw7476,
I asked the guy who is doing my heads at JPM about rebuilding my camshaft. It seems he does a less advanced renovation. He measures the cam and then sends a file to another company, who then polishes it. They don't build up with any material, like the process you described. And it would still cost 250 dollars. A regrind at webcam costs 140 dollars, is that the one you are referring to?
I live in Sweden so I would have to add shipping also.

Guess I have some budgeteering to do!
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79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[udidwht]

Go with Web Cam Inc. Once you do you'll never want another stock VW cam in your engine again. Miles ahead of any VW cam.
_________________
1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires

[timvw7476]

I kinda like those lobes.......(camshaft)
A type IV cam is either a new grind or 'rebuilt' by metal-spraying to build the
full lobe back up, beyond factory shape & machined down to VW original
spec, they may heat-treat it to get VW-like durability but it's not like the
original stuff, then parkerized, a corrosion stopping coating that helps with
the break in when installed. I like metal-spraying so I can 'keep' my
original cam, but they start wearing again beyond 100k miles.
And there's at least a five week wait between shipping your core cam &
receiving the re-ground one back. : (

[Wildthings]

Your cam doesn't have the ugly high mileage Type 4 wear pattern so you could get by with refacing the lifters if you wanted. It would certain be best to have a shop with the proper equipment do this for you, though I did mine by hand. If you can figure out the brand of the cam from the numbers you can see on the cam, you could also just buy new lifters.

[Jonasand]

Thanks for your answers timvw7476 and Wildthings. I'm learning a lot here, very helpful stuff.

So what do you make of the pictures?
The noses have a brassy look to them, does this mean the hardened surface is gone there?
When a machine shop fixes a worn cam, what do they do to it? Do they apply more material or do they just grind it so it becomes more smooth?

Assuming I had healthy lifters, how many miles would be left on this cam.

1. As it is now?
2. With machine shop renovation?
3. How many miles on a new stock cam?
4. How many miles on a new cam from webcam?
5. How much would renovation cost?
_________________
79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Wildthings]

These lifters with 250K miles on them looked a whole lot worse than yours before I reground them 100K miles earlier. I ground a relatively deep bevel around the edges of the lifter face and then very lightly touched up the face to create a slightly crowned surface. I didn't touch the center 1/4-1/3 of the lifter. By getting rid of the sharp edge they don't wear into the cam anywhere near as bad and by re-establishing a crown you gain back lift that was and/or may be lost as the lifter wears concave. You can still see the remains of the bevel around the edges of several of the lifters.

You can see how much of a bevel I cut in this picture, I had not worked on the face to recreate a crown as of yet.

The cam doesn't look bad for having 250K miles on it, it would look like absolute crap had I not done the grinding on the lifters. With 250K miles the cam still has more lift than a new stock cam would.

I did the same to the lifters in my present high mileage engine, and now have something like 30k additional miles on them. No catastrophic wear to date and I have barely had to do any adjustment of the valves at all, maybe .002" tighter on each one, meaning the wear is very minimal at this point in time. If anything the engine is running better as time passes.

Your bad fin is a casting flaw, not a rust problem.

[timvw7476]

1.a wasted or tired camshaft for type IV usually has a 'thumb print'
depression in the middle of every lobe.
2. yes it can happen with any camshaft in any engine but rare in a type IV.
3.......because each camshaft lobe does 'double duty' in this design, each lobe
works for two cylinders, hence the offset when viewed through lifter bore.
4. you won't get to peek straight down through breather, there's a floor
to that chamber, cast in at factory.

1. if the perimeter of a lifter is nicked, it gets tossed.
2.personal choice, or machinist's advice
3.new lifters with a new camshaft
4.assembly lube on cam and lifter faces
5.hydraulics get disassembled & cleaned but that's rare too if they are old they
get tossed. The camshaft & crank are the last pieces taken out of a type IV
engine so it's labor intensive to get to them, that's why NEW is usually
installed here, lots of labor hours involved.

[Jonasand]

Ok so now the heads are with Johannes at JPM being rebuilt for up to 1.5 weeks.The actual job would take one day per head.

I gave him the cylinders+pistons too so he can measure them and see if they are up to spec.

He said that I shouldn't be worried about the rust on the fins though, it had no effect on cooling he said. But he said cylinders usually need to be replaced anyway.

When I took the cylinders off I realised that I could get a better view of the cam through the much bigger cylinder holes then through the lifter bores. Stupid me

Tomorrow I will try to get a better look at the cam.

I watched the cam section on the Bug Me video, and it seemed that the cam lobes indeed don't line up with the lifter bores. Jake comments on that being a problem with how the lobes wear.


If anyone would care to comment on my lifters I'd be very glad. I'm not sure if you see what I mean on the photo of the lifter at #2 exhaust. The little black shape at the edge at 6 o' clock is a little piece of metal that has come off.
How did that happen? I've only read about the dishing which I don't have. A search for lifter and edges gives nothing interesting.

Does this lifter need to be replaced?
What about the other ones that have slight a bit of raggedness to the edge?
Or do you always change all of them out as a set?
Anything else about the lifters that I should take into consideration?
Should I open them up and clean them?
_________________
79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters

[Jonasand]

Ok, I'll get the cylinders and pistons off too after I'm done inspecting the cam. #4 has rusted through on one fin.

I've taken the lifters out and they don't look dished at all. They do have some light circular etchings on the top, as you can see on the one rightmost.

Exhaust#2 has an obvious dent on the edge. A few of them have a little rough edges (I can feel it with my fingernail, but not clearly visible).

From what I can see the camshaft doesn't have any obvious dents, what should I look for? Wear would typically be at the lobes where the lifting happens right? So maybe I should rotate the engine and check 360 around each lobe. Didn't have time for that today though, just a quick look.

Is it possible for the cam to be bad even if the lifters are looking good?

The cam lobes don't line up at the lifter bores is that normal? I would have thought that they would be centered at the bore. (see pic).

Is it possible to get a look at the camshaft if I remove the oil breather?


Thanks for all the sweet info!
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79 Baywindow, currently rebuilding engine
Type 4 2.0 L FI
Hydraulic lifters