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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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I've searched for the last few weeks and can't find good instructions on this . Theres some older threads but the pics are gone. I also bought the little cheap adapter from empi...but it's junk and I don't want to use it. Any help would be great . |
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Starbucket Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007 Posts: 4023 Location: WA
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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It's the special bus case or a "universal case" that has the tapped holes. Take your cheap china Empi adaptor and make a thick one using those dim.s and if it's the one that mounts to the oil pump studs, drill and tap the pump holes to a larger size. |
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rockerarm Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2009 Posts: 3552 Location: Los Angeles
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Hi and WELCOME.
Before you use some poor advice and start drilling PLEASE show a pic of the rear of your engine case in the area surrounding the oil pump. Many cases were not dedicated for type 2 or type 3 use BUT had the bosses/provisions for the drilling and installing of an insert there. If so this is a relatively easy task.
Hope this helps. |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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rockerarm wrote: |
Hi and WELCOME.
Before you use some poor advice and start drilling PLEASE show a pic of the rear of your engine case in the area surrounding the oil pump. Many cases were not dedicated for type 2 or type 3 use BUT had the bosses/provisions for the drilling and installing of an insert there. If so this is a relatively easy task.
Hope this helps. |
X2 _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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I have a case from a 73 beetle and it can be tapped. |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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I know it looks threaded in there but it's just a nut back there . |
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richparker Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011 Posts: 6981 Location: Durango, CO
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Fine machine work like that should be done before a build. I think you'd have better luck using the oil pump bracket. _________________ __________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51124 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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That adaptor makes an ideal drill guide, VW put inserts in the holes opposed to just a steel bolt VS: magnesium alloy, consider a Timesert or other full sleeve style insert (avoid Helicoil), don't drill deeper than a couple extra threads, some of those holes have oil behind them. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Where would I get the inserts? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51124 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Your local FLAPS or a hardware supply store like Mcmaster carr. Timesert may have been a little extreme, but definitely avoid loose coils like most Helicoil products. Raygreenwood has some very enlightening posts on the topic and science of inserts, do some searching using his name as the submitter, here's an example: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666373 _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Big thanks I have a good hardware store near the house I will head to tomorrow. Do I still use the same size bolt that I would normally use if the case came tapped from the factory ? |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51124 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Why not?, it keeps things simple later. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22639 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:22 am Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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This is kind of an expensive thing to learn how to do a tap/insert on. If you are near any big city, consider taking it to a shop for one hour of shop time to get this done. Use the resources here to make sure you get it marked in the right place _________________ .ssS! |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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be VERY aware that not all engines have the bosses to drill for a mustache bar. Some have oil galleries and plugs instead of the thick bosses. The photo provided does not address whether this case will adapt or not.
If you do a search here in the bay forum https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
you will get several threads that go into this quite a bit. Here is one post from within one of those threads that addresses the question.
Randy in Maine wrote: |
I shamelessly stole this from the FAQs at the top of the page...
The beetle engine support was the transmission but the bus had a special engine mount affectionately called the mustache bar. It mounted to the rear (pump side) of the bus case. Because of this, you'll need a "universal" case that has the mounts on it or you'll need to find the aftermarket support bracket that attached to the oil pump (yikes, if you ask me, but that's how it's done).
To make you case universal you can drill and tap the bosses cast into the beetle case:
There are 3 holes, I'll refer to them as 1, 2, and 3 left to right.
1 and 3 are along the same plane, 2 is a little over 71mm below that.
If you make a template, draw a line 190mm long mark hole #1 center 5mm from the left end of the line measure 178mm along the line from hole #1 center and mark hole #3 center.
scribe an arc below the line from hole #1, 104mm
scribe an arc below the line from hole #3, 125mm
where these arcs cross is hole #2
#1 is M10X1.5 x70 stud the hole is 22mm deep 8.5mm drill bit or 21/64" worked
#2 is M8X1.25 x55 stud the hole is 28mm deep 6.8mm drill bit or 17/64" worked
#3 is M10X1.5 x70 stud the hole is 28mm deep 8.5mm drill bit or 21/64"
Measurements courtesy of Jamie Rivers
Some folks think you don't need the engine support bar. The weight of the engine with stock exhaust is probably 4-5x the weight of the transmission. The transmission carrier is not at a balancing point on the body so the unbalanced weight of the engine will be bourne by the nosecone pressing against the torsion housing because the rear support bar is missing. Bad idea. |
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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So I took the adapter off and got another picture like someone asked. As you can see there's already a hole on the right side and it looks like the left side already has a snapped off bolt in a hole or was the case just machined that way . I bought this motor from a guy that had this engine in a Myers Manx for what it's worth . |
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Dkwautounion Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2017 Posts: 178 Location: Socal
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Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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So thanks to the people that gave me the tips and courage to go for it, I tapped the case today and Installed the inserts . I went to the store and bought the parts. 27 bucks for the m16x2.00 tap....yikes. it was pretty easy. Took me about 2 hours. I tapped the top right hole and snugged the mustache bar down and used the mustache bar for the guide where I wanted the other 2 holes. The EZ-loks were a snap. And yes, when you see chunks of case coming out busdaddy, the pucker factor is high. Lol. I had a tiny bit of the ez lok sticking out of the case so i knocked them down with my grinder .
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DougClink Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2006 Posts: 93 Location: Fremont, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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I need to do this, I think I can.
Can someone share the size of drill bit and insert?
Thanks! _________________ Air-cooled Preservation Society
Join us on Facebook!
1957 Sunroof Beetle • 1964 Beetle • 1958 Westfalia Subhatch • 1955 Baja Bus • 1970 Sportsmobile |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51124 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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2 x M10 x 1.5 & 1 x M8 x 1.25 inserts, the drill will either come in the kits, or the size needed will be specified in the instructions for whatever brand and style you decide to use. _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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DougClink Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2006 Posts: 93 Location: Fremont, Michigan
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:06 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Thanks!
_________________ Air-cooled Preservation Society
Join us on Facebook!
1957 Sunroof Beetle • 1964 Beetle • 1958 Westfalia Subhatch • 1955 Baja Bus • 1970 Sportsmobile |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:25 pm Post subject: Re: How do I tap a type 1 engine for the mustache bar..ive searched |
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Que Paso?
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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