Build Suggestions for 40 HP with Saxomat

[vwfreek61]

I've got a 1964 Beetle with the original engine. The oil light is coming on at idle when the engine is warm, so it's time to pull the motor and rebuild it this winter. I'm not looking to go fast, but a little bump in power to keep up with traffic would be nice.

My limiting factor is the 160mm Saxomat clutch.

I'm thinking 83mm pistons/cylinders and 1.1:1 rockers with the stock 28 PICT should be fine. Would a mild cam be too much? There's also a bronze sintered centrifugal clutch, made of unobtainium, that's fully engaged at about 1200 rpm. So it might be good to move the peak torque higher up in the rev range.
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Kenneth
1964 Bug with Saxomat
1976 VW/Harley Trike Autostick
1987 Vanagon Westy w/Subaru EJ25 and reversed 4EAT

[Snort]

The 83mm P/C set will give you enough power increase to be noticeable.

I'm sure the 1.1:1 rocker arms will help a bit, but that gain will be dwarfed by the increased displacement.

My son has been driving a 40hp 83mm Big Bore for perhaps the last 10 years. He likes the '67 30PICT with the 40hp distributor.

I really like stock camshaft grinds with stock carburetors. Maybe someone else can give you some better advice on how to make that choice.

[andk5591]

I had a stock 1200 in my 65 and did the big bore upgrade a few years ago with a 28PICT 1 and one of Glenns 019 distributors. HUGE difference. The car runs as strong as a stock 1600, BUT keep in mind that I still have a stock geared transaxle, so that also helps the low end. You will want to rejet the carb to be a little fatter. Made a substantial different. Not sure how much anythingh like the higher lift rockers will do since you are limited on the top end by your intake and exhaust (if staying stock)

Since you are tearing it down, you definately need to mock up the p/c on cylinder 3 because you will likely have interferance issues. There are threads about this. Oh - find a set of 65 square boss heads (also covered here).
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Lingwendil]

If you decide to change the cam go mild, something like the CB Performance "cheater" cam would be a nice upgrade that wont be too much power increase, but will be a good little increase in torque and drivablity.
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73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[vwoldbug]

Will 1300 cylinder heads fit and the 67 carb will help .

[andk5591]

No and maybe....If you increase displacement, more carb is not a bad thing. Dont know if i would suggest a larger carb with the stock displacement. Bigger is not always better. That being said, I have replaced a leaky 28 PICT on a stock 64 bug with a 30 PICT 1 and the car ran well. No better or worse. The main reason was that we converted to 12V and I didnt have any 28 PICT-1 carbs (that can use a 12V choke) in my stash.

For a 1200, its typically suggested to use the 65 square boss heads. From everything I have read, they are the best stock head for this application. That is what I have on mine and they work well.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Alstrup]

IMHO
The increase in displacement only works in the lower rpm. as soon as the engine gets above approx 2500 it is limited by the intake manifold. I have tried to see if a 1200 cc with stock intake would benefit from a little more cam duration and CR. but the improvement is so minor that it is not worth it.

The swop to 83 mm big bore is good as such. But if you want to be able to enjoy it in the "entire" rpm band you shoud swop to 1300 sgl port heads at the same time. If you want a little more you can swop to the CB 2280 cam. Go 8,5 CR and masage a stock 1300 intake manifold to fit on the narrower engine and use a 30 mm Pict 1 &2 carb. That will give you a noticeable power increase which will suit the Saxomat just fine.
with the clutch. I actually think the stock parts will hold the extra torque. But if you want to make sure that you do not have to get in there again you can send the disc to a clutch specialist and get a lining mounted that has a higher grip coifcient. You can get anything from +10 to +70%. I have used sintermetal discs many times with the Saxomat and up to 1776 cc. engines. Then it´ll hold at least 83 hp and 150 Nm torque, which is the highest I have tried. This was with a ´74 1300 original set up. I doubt there is much difference except maybe a tad higher clutch pressure. but that can be fixed too. No problem.

T

[Lingwendil]

^ this guy is the man, and always gives great experience based advice. Listen to him
_________________
73 super beetle thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=649622 Back on the Road!

Modify your Kadrons for SVDA http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8115884#8115884

Cast iron VJU4BR8 SVDA reference thread- https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Need replacement filters for original Kadron aircleaners? WIX #42087 is a perfect fit, as is Napa Gold #2087!

[Fifty-Eight Rag]

[bally]

Dry interesting thread. I'm looking to do this with both my 1500 Squareback using the totally stock 1500 mated to a saxomat and with my bus using a 25hp case and Okrasa kit to make 1500 as the pre A 356 did, again mated to the saxomat but it needs modifying to fit the 25 horse set up.

I don't think I have quite enough saxomat Parts for two set ups, the key component I am missing is the diving clutch pressure plate. If anyone knows of one for sale I'd be most appreciative.

Cheers. Dave