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custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions
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WHYYYTRYYY
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Location: Jackson, NJ
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

Trying to finish up my Sebring kit car finally. So in a few weeks I'll be pulling the body off this thing yet again to get the chassis sorted out. I have a rebuilt front beam, new shifter rod and bushing, all new steering components, shocks, trans brace, and many other parts going in.
I have a few questions concerning my brake setup I'm going with. I absolutely hate the stock pedals and will be replacing them with a sweet OBP pedal assembly. Yes I know there is a lot of fabrication for this setup. This is the unit I ordered.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=10925
I am also going with front and rear disc brake kits
Front kit
http://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2981.html
Rear kit, and I am upgrading to the iron caliper brackets
http://www.jbugs.com/product/22-2913.html

So, a couple questions: The pedals come with dual brake master cylinders. The front MC has a 5/8" bore, and the rear has a 7/10" bore. Do these sound like they may at least be in the ball park for a beetle chassis? Is 3/16" brake line preferred for all the hard lines with the above equipment installed? I am running all new lines while I have the body off and already purchased SS hoses for the connections to the calipers. Is there any specific size remote reservoirs I'll need for this setup? I was thinking of something like this.
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=7590

I'm also getting a bearing kit to go with the front discs from jbugs. Aside from the stuff I mentioned, is there anything else I'm missing for this setup to work? I'm an ASE certified master auto technician, but this is the first time building a brake system from scratch, and always have the suspicion that I'm overlooking something. Any advice is greatly appreciated!


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ach60 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

Actually the Master cylinders are 1 x 5/8" (front brake) and 1 x 7/10" (rear brake) master cylinders.
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Mid Engine Bug
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

With those size masters, you are going to have a very stiff pedal with not much pedal travel. I would say its a bit over kill for the calipers you are running. I am running Wilwood 6 piston up front and 4 piston in the rear all off a single 3/4" master combined with a rear proportioning valve. I have a very nice pedal feel but it does take a bit of pedal travel. When running manual brakes, you have to make a compromise. Softer pedal with more travel or a stiff pedal with not much travel. The master(s) is what determines that.

Edit - Looking at the pedal assembly again, it looks like they set it up with some crazy pedal ratio to compensate for the massive slaves. Do you know what pedal ratio it is?
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WHYYYTRYYY
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

Mid Engine Bug wrote:
With those size masters, you are going to have a very stiff pedal with not much pedal travel. I would say its a bit over kill for the calipers you are running. I am running Wilwood 6 piston up front and 4 piston in the rear all off a single 3/4" master combined with a rear proportioning valve. I have a very nice pedal feel but it does take a bit of pedal travel. When running manual brakes, you have to make a compromise. Softer pedal with more travel or a stiff pedal with not much travel. The master(s) is what determines that.

Edit - Looking at the pedal assembly again, it looks like they set it up with some crazy pedal ratio to compensate for the massive slaves. Do you know what pedal ratio it is?


I am going for short travel pedals. Because of the near horizontal seating position of this car (especially with the dropped floor pan and elevated pedal location), I actually need to slide forward and back in the seat to achieve full travel of the stock clutch and brake pedals. And because I wear size 13 shoes, I currently have to lift my foot over the brake to hit the throttle pedal. The whole stock setup sucks and seems wildly dangerous.
I spoke with the guy at Pegasus before I ordered these, and he said the pedal ratio was 5 or 5.5 to 1, I don't remember exactly. He said I should achieve roughly a three inch travel with the brake pedal. I was bearing in mind that these are race pedals, and would generally be at the extreme end of the spectrum in regards to short travel and stiff pressure. Obviously, testing will be required to ascertain that these will work well.
I do appreciate everyone's input on this matter!
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Mid Engine Bug
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

WHYYYTRYYY wrote:
Mid Engine Bug wrote:
With those size masters, you are going to have a very stiff pedal with not much pedal travel. I would say its a bit over kill for the calipers you are running. I am running Wilwood 6 piston up front and 4 piston in the rear all off a single 3/4" master combined with a rear proportioning valve. I have a very nice pedal feel but it does take a bit of pedal travel. When running manual brakes, you have to make a compromise. Softer pedal with more travel or a stiff pedal with not much travel. The master(s) is what determines that.

Edit - Looking at the pedal assembly again, it looks like they set it up with some crazy pedal ratio to compensate for the massive slaves. Do you know what pedal ratio it is?


I am going for short travel pedals. Because of the near horizontal seating position of this car (especially with the dropped floor pan and elevated pedal location), I actually need to slide forward and back in the seat to achieve full travel of the stock clutch and brake pedals. And because I wear size 13 shoes, I currently have to lift my foot over the brake to hit the throttle pedal. The whole stock setup sucks and seems wildly dangerous.
I spoke with the guy at Pegasus before I ordered these, and he said the pedal ratio was 5 or 5.5 to 1, I don't remember exactly. He said I should achieve roughly a three inch travel with the brake pedal. I was bearing in mind that these are race pedals, and would generally be at the extreme end of the spectrum in regards to short travel and stiff pressure. Obviously, testing will be required to ascertain that these will work well.
I do appreciate everyone's input on this matter!


If short travel pedal is what you are going for, you got it. Mine does 3.5" of travel. Yours will be less. And I have a raised floor so I am limited on room too. My gas pedal sits almost perfectly centered in the car for extra room. Here is what I did. Dont mind how dirty it is.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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WHYYYTRYYY
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

Mid Engine Bug wrote:


If short travel pedal is what you are going for, you got it. Mine does 3.5" of travel. Yours will be less. And I have a raised floor so I am limited on room too. My gas pedal sits almost perfectly centered in the car for extra room. Here is what I did. Dont mind how dirty it is.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Your car is badass, man. I don't have much time tonight but a quick perusal of your build thread makes me quite envious already. Tube chassis and blown Ecotec? Yes, please Smile
Unfortunately I'm limited by the stock chassis' tight constraints in the footwell area. I plan on cutting the front support crown to allow the master cylinders to pass through, and reinforcing around those points. Wilwoods were my ultimate goal, but at this point I just need to get this car functional and drivable. It's been about 16 months since I bought this thing. Can't wait to actually see it move under its own power at more than 5 mph!
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Mid Engine Bug
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: custom pedals, front and rear disc brakes...few questions Reply with quote

WHYYYTRYYY wrote:
Mid Engine Bug wrote:


If short travel pedal is what you are going for, you got it. Mine does 3.5" of travel. Yours will be less. And I have a raised floor so I am limited on room too. My gas pedal sits almost perfectly centered in the car for extra room. Here is what I did. Dont mind how dirty it is.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Your car is badass, man. I don't have much time tonight but a quick perusal of your build thread makes me quite envious already. Tube chassis and blown Ecotec? Yes, please Smile
Unfortunately I'm limited by the stock chassis' tight constraints in the footwell area. I plan on cutting the front support crown to allow the master cylinders to pass through, and reinforcing around those points. Wilwoods were my ultimate goal, but at this point I just need to get this car functional and drivable. It's been about 16 months since I bought this thing. Can't wait to actually see it move under its own power at more than 5 mph!


Thanks for the good words on my build. It took me 3 years before my first drive. So you being at 16 months and having it be movable is awesome! I have always like unique builds. So expect me to be following yours!
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