Odd Clutch Behavior

[Brentonodon]

So I replaced the clutch not too awful long ago. Previous one actually had a pressure plate failure. Previous owner had installed a Stage 1 Kennedy pressure plate and the snap ring that is on the fingers had come out of a few of the fingers. Weird but no bother.

new one was a set that I picked up from O'Reilly's. It's got maybe 1000 miles on it and I don't actually suspect it's the problem per se.

The other day. I was driving through town and noticed a bit more friction on the clutch pedal. Sort of feeling like a braided cable sliding over something. The weird part to me was that when I was about to start the engine, I'd depress the clutch all the way and when the engine was turning over, the clutch pedal would depress another inch. Not sure what could do that. Now when driving the car the clutch seems to engage a bit later than before but the play in it seems just about the same. I have noticed it slip in 3rd and 4th uphill and when on the throttle hard. There is also a bit of jerking when starting from a stop. One final bit of info. When I'm under the car and grab the clutch cable right before the transmission and wiggle it it seems to be caught in some sort of wear groove on the clutch tube.

Things I've seen that might be culprit and I'll check tomorrow:
1) The clutch tube that is supposed to have a slight s-curve in it.
2) Concerned that I may have not tightened everything up all the way on the engine mounts. Could that cause this? Will check torque on them tomorrow.
3) Trans mount.

Anyway, wanted to lob it out there to see if anyone has experienced this.

[Tim Donahoe]

Perhaps you put too much grease in the gland nut, or on the transmission shaft/or splines. Too much--and it doesn't take a lot--and it can fling onto the clutch driven disc. Then your clutch will slip.

Also, remove your Bowden tube. It may have a worn grove along its length, or may need to be greased well. It may also not have a proper amount of sag.

Tim
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Richard O'Brien

[Brentonodon]

Word. Thanks, Tim. I'll take the tube off today and give it a look.

Definitely have noticed wear on it while still installed. See the vid

https://youtu.be/x_qwrxT77dM

[bluebus86]

Cable stretch of coming apart, or failjre of the cable hook at the pedel come to mind. ylu have indkcated you have increasing clutch pedel free play is that correct? if so either of the two afore mentioned things can cause that. be sure to lube any new cable wkth grease, and lube the pedel end of cable where it hooks to the hook on the pedle.

good luck!
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Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

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[Brentonodon]

There doesn't seem to be any extra play. There is more friction but the play seems exactly the same. Got under the car this morning. Engine is mounted solidly, trans mount still looks brand spankin new. Noticed the clutch arm return spring looking a bit out of wack.

Is this an indication that the arm is too far out? Worn bits? Just wanting to check before I pull the motor to inspect further.

Going to pull the bowden tube here in a minute. Also found out why my heater was on the fritz. The benefit of spending some time in the garage on a Sunday

[bluebus86]

cant tell about the spring, there is a shadow in the way of the view. the llwer end of the spring should be resting on the rib on the tranny, but it is in a shadow. sometime the end of the spring can break off then the arm flops around. make sure the arm is not flopping around.

check bowden tube for correct arch in it. that too is critical.

good luck, shift away!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Tim Donahoe]

The spring looks broken, although it's hard to tell in the light. But the spring should be circumventing the shaft better than the picture shows.

Tim
_________________
Let's do the Time Warp again!

Richard O'Brien

[Brentonodon]

Some better shots of the spring. Looks like it's not broken but possibly a bigger one than stock.

Looks like it was probably a won bowden tube. Rotated it so the worn part isn't where the cable is going. Seems way smoother now. All greased up amd shifting great. Will order a new one soon.

[Brentonodon]

Spring still looks wonky though

[Blue69Baja]

Is your ground strap, trans to body there? Just throwing this out...

The path for battery negative/ground will run through the clutch cable if the strap is not there. The current during starting will cause arching and the cable to stretch to breakage.

Jim
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69 Baja with a 1914...
72 Super 100% orig...W/ factory air... 56,000mi
Even the spare is original..

[Brentonodon]

Come to think of it I can't recall seeing the ground strap on there. Good catch. I'll get one sorted. Might have led to the bowden tube wear yeah?

[FeelthySanchez]

Agree w/ Tim here: that spring looks whacked, right @ the red arrow:

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[Brentonodon]

The spring is not actually broken but it does rub on the arm there which wiped off the dust. Is the spring supposed to fit on the boss more tightly? This one to me looks like it's too big.

[57BLITZ]

[Brentonodon]

Yeah that spring looks a lot closer in diameter to the boss there. Hmmm. Time to hunt for a new spring. I don't think the spring has really worn out or broken at all. Just want to replace for preventive measures. Grounding strap is on the way. I'll also check the tunnel tomorrow. Thanks all.

Currently the clutch feels a lot better after rotating the bowden tube so that the worn section is in a different place. Sketchy but answering of the question. Hoping the ground strap will minimize any arc'ing/heating that was going on in there. I've got a spare cable in the car at all times so feeling confident enough about swapping it out. Hope that cable tube in the tunnel isn't f'd as that seems like a less than fun repair from what I'm reading.

[Bruce]

The spring you have is the large diameter one for 73 and later.
If you find the correct earlier one that fits better, it won't change anything about how your clutch works.
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[VW_Jimbo]

You can hear a broken tunnel mount. Engine off, windows up, doors shut. When you depress the clutch pedal, listen closely. It will sounds like someone scratching a chalk board with their nails. That is the sounds of metal screaming. If it is not screaming, the tube welds are more than likely good. There are three attachment points inside the tunnel. One right in back of where the pedal assembly is installed. That brace actually brakes apart, usually a big rusty looking powdery spot. The second weld point is right in back of the e brake, down low in the tunnel. Little brace that is welded to the drivers side. If you remove the ebrake handle, sometimes you can see it move to the side while depressing the clutch pedal. The thrid point is under the inspection cover, by the shift coupler, very uncommon break point.

I have a thread on here, on my first 70 restore. Its the yellow 70. That had all three welds break!
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Jimbo

There is never enough time to do it right the first time, but all the time necessary the second time!

[Brentonodon]

Alright. Finally pulled the motor out to have a closer look. To my surprise I've got an extremely similar failure to the last time I replaced the clutch, ruined pressure plate!!!!.

Here's the springs on the pressure plate now. They've gouged into the centering ring and the ring now sits crooked on there.

I'm thinking it might have something to do with that throwout bearing and arm. It is shifted toward the clutch cable side by a bit. This would explain to me why the clutch would depress an extra little bit while the motor was cranking over. As the motor turned it centered the throwout bearing and arm. I'm going to grab a proper sized spring for the arm and was wondering if it'd be better to just get a whole throwout arm set. Also, could I repair the previous pressure plate I had that simply had the retaining ring shift. Here's a pic of that one.

Question is: What is causing this failure? Bad Throwout bearing, arm is in the wrong place?

[Bruce]

Pic of your clutch cross shaft with and without the TO bearing.
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[Brentonodon]

With the throwout bearing. It is shifted over to one side. I believe it's due to the wrong return spring which wedges itself between the clutch cable arm and the boss the spring is supposed to fit around.

I'll snap one tonight without the bearing.