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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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 Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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When my 1970's engine was out last year, I also thought that my throwout bearing was a little off-center, new throwout bearing as I think mine was 260K old. This is the only photo of mine I can find, though. I haven't had any driving issues that I could "blame" on this.
I did notice that your throwout bearing looks different than mine though. Maybe someone can explain. I see your cross shaft is a welded up one.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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Here's a short video of what's going back there. Looks like the throwout bearing has some wear on one of the side bosses on it. The clutch return spring is definitely biasing the clutch arm shaft to one side. Getting a new throwout bearing and spring.
https://youtu.be/odWxkdAzvLw |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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| Yeah, sorry about that. |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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There's a good reason why VW redesigned the throw out bearing, cross shaft, and pressure plate for 1971. It's because the early stuff is JUNK! Adding to that, you are seeing the results of crappy China parts.
You need a new pressure plate for sure. You said in your vid you were going to get a new TO bearing.
Here's what you should do. Get all of the parts for a 71. Late clutch, & TO bearing. Then buy a 71-72 cross shaft and the 71 and later guide tube that the TO bearing rides on.
Use the guide tube as a template on your 1970 only gearbox and mark where to drill and tap the 3 m7 threaded holes so you can bolt up the guide tube.
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| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31361
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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| Bruce wrote: |
| There's a good reason why VW redesigned the throw out bearing, cross shaft, and pressure plate for 1971. It's because the early stuff is JUNK! Adding to that, you are seeing the results of crappy China parts. |
I agree that VW had reasons for redesigning the throwout bearing/pressure plate stuff. But the earlier style has proven pretty good in miliions and millions of user miles.
Plus - I personally hate R&R of the cross shaft, and chose NOT to update my 1970 cross shaft/throwout bearing/pressure platelast year when I resurrected it last year, even though I already had a pressure plate without center ring. The cross shaft thing, drilling my 1970 and tapping: not something I wanted to do unless there was a great reason.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Bruce wrote: |
| There's a good reason why VW redesigned the throw out bearing, cross shaft, and pressure plate for 1971. It's because the early stuff is JUNK! Adding to that, you are seeing the results of crappy China parts. |
I agree that VW had reasons for redesigning the throwout bearing/pressure plate stuff. But the earlier style has proven pretty good in miliions and millions of user miles. |
The early TO bearing is notorious for the clips falling out. So much that everyone today uses Saab TO bearing clips with the extra loop. But even those fall out.
Then there's the common problem of a misaligned TO bearing caused by the cross shaft not being centered.
With the early design, the TO bearing is swinging in an arc. Thus most of the time it is never centered to the clutch. This is part of the cause of the centering ring of the clutch being tilted.
All of those common problems are completely cured by upgrading to the late style.
It's a very worthwhile upgrade to every 1970 gearbox.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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| Talked with Sean over at Weddle Industries. Sounds like they can get me all the parts for the upgrade for $90. Going to drill and tap the holes in the trans to use the later model guide sleeve. Should fix it all and last for a LONG while. |
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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Parts came in. Waiting on an M7x1.0 tap so I can drill and tap the transmission for the guide tube. Going to make a drill fixture today that will keep the drilling and tapping straight and where it needs to be. Here are some shots from installing parts last night.
Two sets of parts. Old up top, new on bottom.
Bosses are included in the 1970 transmission apparently.
Measuring spline diameter for the drill fixture to make it around.
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Bruce
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2003
Posts: 17285
Location: Left coast, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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You may have to press your input shaft seal in a little deeper. The guide tube has 3 tiny tabs that locate it on the bore of the trans case.
_________________
| overheard at the portland Swap Meet... wrote: |
| ..... a steering wheel made from a mastadon tusk..... |
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:48 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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Got some progress done this weekend on the update. Had to smash in the seal a little farther to deal with the lips on the guide tube. Drilled out the holes to match the new guide tube. VW was really optimizing apparently since they used an M7x1.0 thread on those three bolts. 
Grabbed an M7 tap set including a bottoming tap. Luckily, it counts for a tooling at work so.....................Free!!! 
A little video of it's operation.
https://youtu.be/IXbRd_DZAX4 |
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Brentonodon
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2016
Posts: 44
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Odd Clutch Behavior |
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| Also, cleaned the splines on the shaft like crazy with a brush and shop towel till it was spotless and there were no shavings left. Everything is just about buttoned up. Gotta sort out a new pressure plate and then things will be back on the road!!! |
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