| Author |
Message |
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6572
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
 Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. SOLVED! |
 |
|
You're welcome Bud, Thanks.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. SOLVED! |
|
|
E1 thanks for the more detailed reply I was in a hurry.
The left hand, driver's side relay triggers the ECU.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled  https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6572
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. SOLVED! |
|
|
Quoting this here so users will see how it was solved:
| Westy1999 wrote: |
UPDATE: With all the talk of checking the distributor wires I did just that and the engine started. Then it died 30 seconds later. So I went back to push in all the wires that ran from the distributor and noticed the white plastic clip on the starting coil was loose. I must have brushed it with my hand when I was pushing in the other wires which is why the van started but only ran for 30 seconds. Anyway...that did the trick! Thanks everybody! (Photo attached)
-------------
I filled up with gas, drove a mile and at a light the engine cut off. Started right up and drove 100 yards and it died again while driving. Won't start. I plugged in a new ignition switch to no avail. Oil is full and the coolant overflow has coolant. Engine temp was fine. Newish spark plugs and just had the cap and rotor done. Bosch fuel pump under a year old. Couldn't jump start.
Engine tries to turnover but won't.
Someone in a thread here suggested checking the relays for the fuel pump. I don't know how to do that. Any advice? Keep in mind I'm no mechanic, to say the least.
Any other ideas? It's Saturday and I'm stuck in Meredith New Hampshire for the weekend, it appears.
Thanks in advance.
|
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
E1
Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2013
Posts: 6572
Location: Westfalia, Earth
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
Or we could just tell the surely-stressed OP about fuel pump relays.
Dave, great stuff!
In about the center of the far-left (driver's side) engine bay, you'll see a little black box just under the lip of the rear deck, I guess it's maybe five by three by one. At first it's weird to figure out how to open, but it opens from the driver's side towards the passenger side, support the box as you flip it open, in the case of my box the lid barely clears the engine deck as it opens.
In the box are two silver relays that look like little cubes. They pull out rearwards, in mine I have to slightly pry them out with a little screwdriver or butter knife, but pry from the sides so you don't connect the two plugs together as you pry.
One relay is for the fuel pump and I *think* the other is for the coil (can someone confirm?).
When you turn the key to the first notch without trying to start the van, you should hear the fuel pump buzzing just underneath the lead edge of the sliding door. If you don't, it could be the relay.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mikemtnbike
Samba Member
Joined: March 26, 2015
Posts: 2797
Location: North Carolina
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
On top of the 10000 other suggestions, does your fuel pump prime? In other words, when you turn they key to on, but not cranking, can you hear it run for a second or two?
If not, search fuel pump relay as a title only search.
_________________
1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
A few years ago we spent the night in a hotel just South of Boise Idaho.
The next morning I got up and went to the Van to perform the "morning pre-trip ritual" of checking fluids, tires, etc.
To my dismay the Van was parked in a puddle due to morning grass irrigation.
No problem, lots of dry asphalt!
I jumped in and moved the Van about 40' and parked.
I Did what I had to do, loaded up, the Wife climbed in, I twisted the key to crank the engine and it didn't start!!! (The Starter operated (Cranked, Turned Over) but the engine didn't "Fire", "Catch" or "Start")
After a minute or two of Some Basic trouble shooting......
No fuel!
My new GERMAN made Bosch fuel pump after about 2,500 miles said "No More" and stopped working!
I didn't carry a spare (It was a NEW pump!!!) but sourced one in Boise. A friend that we were on our way to see came to see us instead! With a brand new fuel pump in her hands!
Bus Depot warrantied the pump but getting it to Boise was impossible quickly. I now carry a brand new German Bosch fuel pump as a spare!
Anyway....... all that to say that cars indeed do stop working "just like that" no logic, no warnings, sadly even new parts fail.
Remember......
Compression
Spark
Fuel
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:27 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
In North America, in a running car, I'll give 1/10,000 odds against bad gas.
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:43 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
To me the OP has a "Cause and effect" situation.
He purchased fuel,
one mile later the engine died.
Immediately after dying it started but soon died again.
It did not start again.
The driver has been operating the Starter but the engine refuses to start.
Possibly the battery has gone weak from repeated starting attempts.
Most likely he had purchased a tank of bad fuel.
Possibly by coincidence with stopping for fuel the ignition system or fuel pump broke.
The BIG three MUST be present to run a gasoline engine.....
1) Compression
2) Spark
3) Fuel
He is missing one of these three. You can probably rule out compression unless it threw a rod or swallowed a valve, a catastrophic failure.
Spark is easy to check.
Fuel has multiple aspects.
A) Delivered by the fuel pump.
B) maintained at the correct pressure
C) injected into each cylinder by the fuel injection system
D) of a quality that will combust ... @not tainted with water
Dave
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32632
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
| Posted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:30 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
So much confusion!
Auto repair terminology
Crank:
The car “cranks” when the starter motor is able to spin the engine, also known as "turns over.” If the car “will not crank” when you turn the ignition key, you hear either a clicking sound, or nothing at all.
Turns Over:
An engine “Turning Over” (Turns Over) and an engine “Cranking” (Cranks) mean the same thing.
The starter is working when you turn the key. By “Working” the starter engages the flywheel and rotates the engine as long as you hold the key in Start position. But until the engine "Catches" or "Starts” it is only “Cranking” or “Turning Over”.
The “Cranking” and the “Turning Over” are terms that describe the mechanical rotation of the engine before it catches or starts.
Catches:
The engine starts while the starter motor is operating.
Fire:
While the starter motor is operating the spark ignites the fuel and the engine “Catches” or “Starts”.
Starts:
While the starter motor is operating, the engine “Fires” or “Catches” and runs on its own.
_________________
Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:45 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
Until OP can describe the symptoms accurately, a deluge of options will just scare him/her off. It's likely there are multiple things to put right due to deferred maintenance-as we know these cars require a trip under the back deck every other fuel stop or so, to check wear parts and keep things kosher.
I'm hearing low voltage due to dead battery and bad wiring, listening to the tea leaves
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
Assuming that it is cranking fast enough to start, I would suspect 1. that you have water in your gas and 2. that one of the new parts you had installed has failed.
You could get a 3' piece of 5/16 fuel hose and attach it to the outlet of the fuel pump and put the other end in a quart size glass jar or even a large metal can. Cycle the ignition switch several times from off to on (you should hear the pump run briefly each time you do this.) and then check your fuel container for any water sitting in the bottom, any is too much. Don't turn the key to the start position, just the "ON" position.
Remove you distributor cap, leaving most of the wires in place and noting where any wires you take off go. Check that the insides of the cap and the rotor look perfect. The cap may be cracked or the center electrode may have failed. For the rotor it may have cracked or the resistance strip may have burnt up. If the distributor was removed when the work was done then try grabbing the rotor and giving it a firm twist, it should have very little movement. If it is not locked in place you have found your problem. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
if your still stuck in Meridith (hey there are many worse places, it's quite nice there). there's an import shop in Holderness that is closed sunday but has vans in the front lot when I pass..
Squam Lakes Automotive Services
https://goo.gl/maps/PG6mmw9pnLp
886 US-3, Holderness, NH 03245
squamlakesauto.com
(603) 968-7001
_________________
| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Turbod16v
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2016
Posts: 156
Location: beaver twp, PA
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
I'm about an hour out, more or less depending on where you are in Meredith, south in Hopkinton, NH if your still in need of some help.
mite have some relays and a fuel pump laying around. got plenty of tools.
pm me or reply to this. ill check in a bit
_________________
1971 westy tin top that got a 74 up pop top bolted on |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 9810
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
| Tobias Duncan wrote: |
| ...I am still not clear on this detail... |
Me too. There is a world of difference between a cranking problem and a fuel/firing problem.
I suspect it cranks (though possibly slowly) but does not fire. Several possibilities but a fuel filter would be high on my list for several reasons.
I did not see the model year/engine mentioned but the early white plastic filter can clog abruptly as you drive and take you from running to 'no start' in no time. The brief restart (100 yards) and then thoroughly dead also suggest this.
To the OP - did you try to restart several times cranking the engine for a longer than usual spell? If you know where the fuel pump and filter are - is the filter a large metal can rearward from the pump or a white plastic cube between the pump and the tank? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tobias Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013
Posts: 1391
Location: Taos NM
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
| Westy1999 wrote: |
| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
Tries to turn over but won't
Do you mean the engine spins normally with the starter but will not "catch" and start?
Or..the engine makes an attempt to spin with the starter..but will not spin? Clicks or otherwise will not spin the engine? |
I'm not sure how to tell the difference. It sounds like it would if the battery had some charge but not enough to start the car. If that helps... |
I am still not clear on this detail.
So you turn the key , you hear a very slow turn over instead of the normal ?
Like RRRRRrrrrrr click click click?
Is this what you hear? You keep the key turned but the engine stops trying to spin and you hear silence? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AtlasShrugged
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2008
Posts: 1605
Location: Decatur, Ga. USA
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
But would those issues you mention cause the van to stall while driving?
A bad ground ..bad battery or alternator could do it...anything that kept the engine/ignition from getting a good 12 volts to keep it running. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Westy1999
Samba Member
Joined: June 29, 2015
Posts: 159
Location: U.S.
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
| Westy1999 wrote: |
| AtlasShrugged wrote: |
Tries to turn over but won't
Do you mean the engine spins normally with the starter but will not "catch" and start?
Or..the engine makes an attempt to spin with the starter..but will not spin? Clicks or otherwise will not spin the engine? |
I'm not sure how to tell the difference. It sounds like it would if the battery had some charge but not enough to start the car. If that helps... |
Okay..that sounds like the starter will not turn the engine over...like a dead battery?
If that is the case..forget about checking fuel pump relays and the like...you have a battery starter problem.
If your Vanagon is an Automatic..the neutral safety switch on the center console..if you move the lever to "N" will it turn the engine over? If so..you need a NSS.
Battery in good condition?
Battery terminals clean?
Ground cable good and a clean connection inside the battery box fitting?
The big ground strap under the bus..between the transmission and chassis..is it in good condition and with clean connections?
Connections on the starter good..the big red cable? The #50 red/black wire connection good and on the starter? |
Thanks for all that! I'll check all of those when I'm back at the vehicle. But would those issues you mention cause the van to stall while driving? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tobias Duncan
Samba Member
Joined: January 15, 2013
Posts: 1391
Location: Taos NM
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:10 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
I fear that OP does not have a lot of tools or mechanical savvy.
Is there anyone nearby that can help?
How about the modern version of the vanagon rescue squad app?
The Houston Photographer deal? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
joelsolomonson
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2009
Posts: 56
Location: Oakland, CA
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: Re: Stranded! Engine stalled, won't start. |
|
|
| If you can trouble shoot your battery/starter/alternator connections, I’d start there. Not having a multimeter makes this difficult so it may not be much help while stranded but simply jiggling the wires to see if they are connected could reveal something. I got stranded near home once and after a few attempts at jumping I started tracing wires to where they should be connected to find a dangling wire from the alternator to the battery. Good luck, my friend. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
