No clearance Clarence

[Chris333]

Putting my 1600 engine back together and when I pop the carb on it rests right up against the fan shroud. The stock oil bath air cleaner barely fits as well. I know someone will mention my chrome cylinder tins, but the dog house in the shroud lines up with the oil cooler.

Only thing different is the PO cut the heat rise tubes off the manifold so I used a 1500 1968 manifold that looked identical.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong here. Is the round tin bolted to the generator on correct?

There is a small deflection of the belt too. Like the gen sticks out further than the crank. Even though the pulleys are chrome, they are the same size as what I took off.

[bluebus86]

Pulleys must line up, carb must not rub, else it wear a hole in it.

aftermarket tin might be the issue. But I think you have a mix of incompatible parts

the generator strap by the way is orientated wrong, but that is seperate issue.

looking at the generator backing plate, yours is indented outwards. on my 1973 motors doghouse shroud it is indented inwards, on my stock 66 it is indented outwards.

it may also be an alternator type, verse generator tyle as I think alternator as shorter than generators.

looking at my Orange late model Bentely service book, figure 6.7 of the electrical section, there is a cut away diagram, of side view of generator and fan, and it clearly shows the backing plate should be indented inwards, thus moving the genrator toward the fan house. the base of generator should be inwards to the rear plane (nearest to rear of car) of the fan house.

so It appears you have the wrong generator backing plate for use with the dog house shroud.

The manifold you have is not stock use for the the dog house as I believe the dog house was used on dual port motors. That might be the issue with the carb.

also note if you use the dog house shroud you MUST use the later wider fan, and dont forget other little things like the important "hoover bit". if this hoover bit little peice of metal is missing, you lose cooling air for the oil cooler. seach Hoover bit if you dont know what it is. also dont forget the roam tape seal around the cooler and a thinner foam tape around the cooler duct work, else cooling air bypasses the cooler and hot air leaksmout the duct work, sucked back into the cooling fan.



so it appears you have a mix of different style parts, the generator backing plate is almost certainly wrong for the shroud as per the Official VW Service manual (Orange Bentely Book)

good luck
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Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

ps when all is fixed, please read link at bottom of this post regarding engine fires and safety wires on thecarb and fuel pump.
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Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Chris333]

Thanks I checked the diagram in the Bently. If I flip the front piece over it doesn't line up with the back.

The fan is the thicker one made for the dog house shroud.

This is the 1500's non doghouse gen:

The 1600 is from a 1970, but the block is from around 1974ish. Heads are probably 1970 (last year for single port) From what I've read the doghouse offset cooler is a good thing and 3&4 won't overheat. I have the hoover bits installed, but still need to get the foam strips.

So with a doghouse shroud, wider fan, offset oil cooler and single port heads. Can I make this work?

Do I need a special generator tin?

[Chris333]

And since we're talkin'... how should my gen strap go?

[bluebus86]

[bluebus86]

my thought is the backing plate you have might be the wrong one for the doghouse generator combo mine appears different on my 73 motor, but it was fitted with an alternator, and it is much different than my stock 66 backing plate, there thus are at least 3 types, maybe more?

but for sure, Id say the plate you have is wrong, that is a significant offset of your pulleys it appears, how much of an offset is it, half an inch, one inch or??
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

See link below...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=643780&highlight=generator+backing+plate

note post by "royraison" near end of thread, he states there is a 30 amp generator and a 38 amp generator, the 38 Amp one is 1/2 inch longer than the 30 amp one, and hence needs a different backing plate.

read the numbers off the generator, it should indicate voltage and amps, which do you have? see first port photo on that thread, showing the stamping on generator housing indicating amperage

or

measure length, it appears you have more than one if the other one is shorter, use it.

next we need to determine if your intake manifold is compatible with the shroud. as far as I know only dual port manifold came with the dog house style. but maybe yours is simply mounted crooked. even on my stock 73 motor (dual port, with doghpuse shroud, all stock) the carb to shroud clearence is small, on krder of quarter inch or so.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

I just check my kit car,,it has a stock vw doghouse shroud, and 30 generator, the backing plate surface is above 1/8 inch above the rasied lip around the plate. lay a straight edge on yous and tell use the gap between the surface the generator mounts on and the top of the raised lip around the plate.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

See link, near end of thread see lost by "dalotheman" with photograph of the offset caused by aftermarket cylinder tin. maybe this is your problem for BOTH the carb and pulley fit issue. regardless of the oil cooler, this might be it.

someone else wrote that all the 12 colt backing plates are the same, but then the other person said that the the 38 amp generator requires different parts to fit, (pulley or backing plate??. but that it is rare (the 38 generator that is.)

do you have original cylinder tin to compair with the chrome tin?

good luck, keep us posted
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

Here is another link showing difference between the 38 amp and 30 amp backing plates...

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479291

so if you have a 38 amp generator, you need the dished inwards plate, it is noted it is a rare part, for Busses. if your generator is a 30 amp, the plate is nearly flat, only raised about 1/8 inch above the lip as I have measured.

so if that is the case, you either have a poorly made aftermarket plate that sticks out too far (lay a ruler on it and see how much the flat part stands above the lip, OR you fan house is located too far back towards rear of car, likely culprit then would be the aftermarket cylinder tin as discribed in the link I gave you on one of my prior posts. since your carb is also hitting, I strongly suspect it is the aftermarket cylinder tin that is wrong.
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

on your first post, last photograph showing the cooler, I think I see the cylinder tin to fan house flange bent forward toward the tranny, that is wrong!!! the cyljnder tin flanges are supposed to fit nicely on the outside of the fan shroud nice and tight, your cylinder tin flange looks peeled back and the shroud is to rear of car from it.. also the shround should rest against a rib on top of the case, rib being inside the shroud on the carb side of the shroud.

good luck
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

another link..

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=617316&highlight=generator+backing+plate
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[bluebus86]

Shirley hope this works.................
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information

Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022

[Chris333]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm at work right now so can't check anything.

My pulleys are maybe 3/16" off or a little less. But my accelerator pump linkage is right up against the backing plate.

When I search backing plates, they all look like mine. Hope I can find the right one.

As for the clamp. I mounted it just like the photo I took before tearing the engine down. I can fix that though.

[Eric&Barb]

Try posting an image of the carb and intake manifold from the left side. Would help greatly to get edge of head tin in lower image.
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[heimlich]

I think there is a plate you can put between the intake and carburetor which will raise the carburetor up a bit. This will help with the clearance.

If you get everything else right you might not need it. Also, adding the plate may cause some other problems.
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[bluebus86]

[Chris333]

Yeah I'll try it with the stock tins just to see. Was hoping to never have to take the manifold off again. I hate those short studs, can't even slip a washer under the nut.

More to come...

[heimlich]

I was suggesting the standoff for the carb hitting the alternator. I guess I should have tuned in a bit better.

The generator is round. If it is a tin problem he may have side to side instead of just front to back issues.

For the head studs please take a picture. There should be plenty of room. Do you know what heads are on there?

I know the exhaust studs sometimes can be screwed in to far.
_________________
www.vwnos.com [email protected]
Classic Brands. Classic Quality.
Not all parts are made the same. NOS OE/OEM parts made mainly in West Germany, Early Germany, and Early Brazil are where VW produced the best quality parts and best fitting products.
5% Off your order with coupon code: 5%OFF
Restored Distributors Available (<--Click here)