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Avis beam adjusters
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 6:46 pm    Post subject: Avis beam adjusters Reply with quote

My son bought the Avis beam adjusters from SoCal and no instructions came with it, nothing. I called SoCal and they were no help. I have seen the photos of the adjuster installed on a bus beam but the tubes were cut and there was no mention of the 'grub screw' or it's location. Avis adjusters are supposedly installed by just cutting a slot. There is supposed to be a PDF installation instructions but I have not been able to find them. I have no in formation and don't want to guess and do this over and over. Can anybody furnish detailed instructions about how this is done? I have never seen the "grub" screw used or it's position, just the main adjusting screw.
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youngnstudly
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I assume you have a Link Pin front beam since you don't have a grub screw already. In that case, I'd consider exchanging your adjusters for the other style (SAW type-I call them chop n' drop), UNLESS you have all the parts and can get instructions or someone else's input that has done this on a L/P beam. I bought CSP avis adjusters for my L/P beam, but ended up using them on my B/J CB narrowed beam instead, since those avis adjusters on the PUMA CB beam are total junk! Cutting existing Avis adjusters off and replacing them with other Avis adjusters is MUCH easier than installing that type of adjuster on an unmodified stock beam.

Even after you get the "dimpled" portion of your beam ground out so that the inner part of the adjuster (that hold the torsion spring packs) will rotate freely, you will need to section in the missing tubing and layout the slot for the grub screws. Remember the adjuster needs to rotate freely, and the upper and lower adjusters should be clocked the same (or within a few degrees of each other at the very least).

My B/J and L/P beams have the grub screw in place already so at least you have a starting point for making the slot. Still have all the cutting and welding to do though in order to get the inner part of the adjuster to rotate though. I think the Avis adjusters are better for use in scratch built beams (personally).

This is the end result on my B/J beam (so you know what it's "suppose" to look like when finished). I would NEVER have installed these had my CB beam not already had this style of adjuster in place. Did your adjusters even come with the grub screws and needed hardware, or did they send half of what you need and not the other half? Obviously they didn't send instructions, so that's not a good start! Rolling Eyes

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


FYI, good name brand SAW type adjusters have very clear instructions about cutting the beam, clocking the adjusters correctly, and finishing the job without guesswork or errors. You cut one tube at a time, install the adjuster, and weld it into place, then move onto the next tube. Bugpack is the last name brand SAW type (chop n' drop) adjuster I installed in my L/P beam....but that was like 18 years ago! Shocked Laughing

Here is the type I would use if I was you...makes things a little:
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Link-Pin-Front-End-Adjuster-SAW-Style-6508-p/6508.htm

Andy
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very god photo and information. I forgot to say this is on a 1970. After seeing this, (and my adjusters are just like the ones in the finished photo) I know a starting point for the angle of the adjusting screw. But what about the other screw and nut that comes with it, the "grub-looking screw".? Do you not use that? If you used it , it would not be in sight in this photo. At any rate, we are going to spot weld inn place to try to be sure everything is right. Yes...I have a fully equipped shop and gas, stick, and mig welders and a "chop saw".
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youngnstudly
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I realized later that you didn't have a L/P beam after I went and checked my spare one sitting in the back.

Here is everything that came with my Avis adjusters, and everything I used with the adjusters. The factory screw isn't long enough so you'll have to use the one provided with your adjuster and disregard the factory screw. There are no other screws involved, just what is shown in my first post (photo).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If you do use the Avis type of adjuster, make sure you keep the upper and lower plates together when welding so no weld splatter gets into the splines of your adjuster. Obviously I chose to tig weld my adjusters into place to avoid the splatter issue. Also, once you remove the factory dimple in both tubes, you'll want to slide the inner part (that holds the spring pack in place with the screw) over to the side while you drill and grind your slot. I slipped a long piece of angle into each tube with some grease on the inner part of the angle iron so that the metal shavings would be captured while drilling/grinding, but I also used the angle to force that inner piece (inside the tube) over so it wasn't in the way.

Tack welding the serrated adjuster plate in place is good for checking fit up, but make sure you get good penetration so the plate doesn't come off later! I trust that you're fully competent in this area since you have a shop, but I just wanted to bring it up for other's who might read this and think that tack welds are sufficient for securing adjusters into place. Confused

Also, MAKE SURE YOUR ADJUSTER PLATES HAVE GOOD TEETH ON THEM! Shown below is the difference between CSP adjusters with the really good teeth machined into them, and the CB Puma adjuster plate that came welded to my brand new B/J beam....This beam has never even been driven on and is BRAND NEW, yet the teeth are nearly missing due to the lack of machining! I never understood why people complained about their adjusters "stripping out" until I noticed this! You can see why I cut those garbage adjusters off the new beam and welded my own on. Shocked

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Good luck and have fun! Fitting adjusters into the beam of my bug was one of the first big father and son projects my dad and I did, way back when I was 13 or 14...and I learned a lot of important swear words that I still use to this day! Laughing

Andy
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youngnstudly
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and one more thing...After you cut the slot and weld the adjuster plates in place, pack a wad of grease through the slot before assembly and smear it around a little so that the center portion of the adjust doesn't bind or rust inside the tube. With that slot there, the beam is now able to take on water and elements that were otherwise sealed off.

Andy
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have really helped me and I appreciate it! My Avis set came with what you have plus a short "grub" screw and nut that is the same diameter as the adjusting screw and nut. I do not know the purpose for that screw. We started "re-doing" the front tube this morning. It looks as if you could place the cut section with the adjuster with the adjusting screw pointing up rather than down so as not to drag. Your opinion? We used the original pieces from the beam when we narrowed it 4" a couple of months ago. Then, I put those pieces of tube in my press and heated the dimples cherry red and pushed the factory adjuster out. Even at that, I had to heat the pieces again and working on a bar in my vice as an anvil , I finished smoothing the dimples with a torch and hammer. These Avis adjusters had to be ground down slightly to fit the factory tube. When I say "re-do" , I have video on Youtube (adobekid1 and 1adobekid) about lowering the front and rear on this 1970. My son wanted to use the rods that eliminate the springs all together and just use air shocks. Best I can tell, that method is just a con. Rode and drove terrible! So we are doing this again. Live and learn! Forum members might disagree and if anyone has great success with that method ,I 'd love to know! I don't mind admitting my mistake of using the rod method and I'll add this in a video when we get this right.
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another comment, so far. My adjusters came with the aluminum top adjusting plate iron bottom plate that is to be welded. Yours looks like both are iron/steel. I am going to make a curved 1/4 ' thick "re-enforcing" plate to put pressure on the ENTIRE aluminum plate so as not to slip/strip.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

youngnstudley..I have a question. How do I determine the starting point for the adjuster? This 1979 has dropped spindles.
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops! 1970 sedan
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youngnstudly
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're going to go off the factory grub screw position as your starting point, though you could "fudge it" either way for more or less adjustability. That would be the middle grub screw that secures the spring pack. If you're like me though, you may want to have more adjustability with those dropped spindles in place (in case you find that you have steering clearance problems, or want to run taller tires/wider rims later without the tires hitting the fenders, etc).

If you look at my photo with the adjusters in place, I have them as high as they will go. Up means up in this instance. If I wanted to lower the car as far as I could, the grub screw would be pointing nearly straight down. If you remove the jam nut but leave the grub screw in place, you can slip the lower adjuster plate (with the long slot) over the grub screw and figure out what range of travel you want for the adjuster.

I never plan to slam my car or get rid of the dropped spindles, so I chose to elongate the factory hole to allow for a little more upwards adjustment. Due to that AND the fact the CB Avis adjuster plate had a longer slot than my CSP adjuster plate, I had to fill the lower portion of the machined slot in my CB beam. I think I gave myself enough adjustment in the up direction to counterbalance for the 2-1/2" dropped spindles by 3/4" to 1", meaning that I could raise my car to it's highest setting with the adjusters and it would be about 1-3/4" to 1-1/2" lower than stock (instead of 2-1/2" that the spindles dropped it). If someone ever put the stock spindles back on, the front of the car would sit higher than it came from the factory if the adjusters were all the way up, but my main concern was having the car too low and not being able to raise it up higher.

Here I just hand marked the slot location on an old beam as a visual aid for you (but you'll use your plate as a template and scribe your slot). Note how I added a little up top so I'd be able to adjust the beam up more. You can line up the top of the slot with the top of the factory hole though, which will give you full range of lowering, and stock height when it's all the way up:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is what I was faced with after removing my CB factory adjuster:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the difference between the range of adjustability between the old and new adjusters:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here is the filler piece I used to shorten the slot with:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As for the Aluminum adjuster plates, I don't understand it, but I guess as long as the teeth mesh really well together, that's all that matters. And I don't know what to tell you about the second short grub screw...if you are replacing the center piece that goes inside the beam and secures the spring packs, there may be a threaded hole for that shorter screw??? Confused Otherwise, I have no clue. If you aren't taking the entire beam apart and removing the needle bearings to put that new part in, I wouldn't worry about it. Some Avis adjusters come with that middle part that slips into the beam , and others don't....which leads me to believe you can use the factory part without issue.

Andy
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! Yours did not come with the short allen/grub screw and it worked fine for you so we won't use that. My son wanted to place the adjuster screw up, but I would worry about doing that, even if possible. I think the tank might be in the way, but I just don't want to experiment. I told him to go with what everyone else has done and to make a "skid plate" to protect the lower screw. My son and I built his first car like you and your dad did. The gray bug in my profile was the first bug we modified and that was his first car. It was a show winner. I did it all, paint, body interior, and engine. We quit bugs in 1990 but now back into bugs again with three. a '63, '70' my '65. Thanks again , and your welding is excellent (and photos) and I wish I had a TIG.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I didn't even have the center part, so I think the German center part is perfectly acceptable if you only want to weld the plates to the beam without removing the bearings inside the tubes. Sticking with the "proven" method of doing things is a sure fire way to have as few issues as possible. Cool story about building the car with your son. I still have my first VW (bought at 12 years old, 18 years ago), but I decided that I didn't want something too nice, so it's still waiting for cosmetic attention. It's had no fewer than 3 transaxles, 5 engines, 4 sets of wheels, 3 interiors, and multiple other parts changed on it over the years. It's been a fun hobby.

As for the TIG welding, I just have a simple little Everlast DC only TIG/stick welder, but I absolutely love it and use it for everything that isn't aluminum or Mag. I've even welded numerous patch panels and such into my VW's using the torch switch that came with it. If you've never TIG welded, I would start out with a minimal investment until you figure out if you like it or not. I've been TIG welding since I was a teenager so I always knew I wanted a TIG, I just couldn't afford the one I wanted Laughing (a $4000+ Miller Shocked)! This welder has almost all the basic (important) features I wanted plus a 5 year warranty, and it was $560.00 delivered to my door, so I couldn't pass that up. Baby steps before big steps!

I'm ready to upgrade now to a higher amp TIG with AC and DC capability though. And someday I'll get a nice MIG welder too so I don't have to TIG or stick weld everything that comes my way. Hopefully by then I won't have anymore of these damn (major) car projects going on either! Rolling Eyes Anyways, keep up the good work and have fun!

Andy
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buggeezer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your help!
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Adrian Daniel
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Re: Avis beam adjusters Reply with quote

I saw that you removed the center retainers without cutting the beam. How did you do it? I've tried to tap them with a pipe, but it doesn't move at all and I don't want to cut my beam to remove them. Thanks!
This is how i've done by now, but i'm afraid to continue, because i don't want to damage the center retainer. https://ibb.co/kGLCt6
P.S: Sorry for my English Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Avis beam adjusters Reply with quote

The factory centers are held in with that "crimp" around the center of the beam. I long piece of pipe inserted into the beam and a BFH (big F'ing Hammer) will make quick work of getting them out Laughing
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:28 am    Post subject: Re: Avis beam adjusters Reply with quote

Bashr52 wrote:
The factory centers are held in with that "crimp" around the center of the beam. I long piece of pipe inserted into the beam and a BFH (big F'ing Hammer) will make quick work of getting them out Laughing


Thanks for the advice. I will try again with a bigger hammer.
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