Hobart 140 Teflon or Nylon Liner?

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi folks.

I'm new to this forum but am quite active on the Vanagon forum here.

My Hobart Handler 140 lists aluminum but reading here it seems that at minimum, I need Argon shielding gas and a soft liner. (teflon, nylon). I just contacted Hobart. They do not sell a soft liner for the 140

Has anyone found a soft liner that fits this MIG gun/cable? Miller part?

Thanks

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

.... another reply from Hobart suggested HTP as a possible source.

I see this from USAweld. Ad references to the Hobart 140 along with others:

http://www.usaweld.com/Aluminum-Welding-Kit-p/aluminumweldingkit.htm
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[CiderGuy]

Have you called your local welding\gas place ? They usually are very helpful and if there is such a part have it or can get it for you. Also best to find one which represents your brand of welder.
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Timing is everything

[Vanagon Nut]

[theKbStockpiler]

The machine has to be 'Spool Gun' ready or there are conversions for them.

Your limitations are going to revolve around the power of your welder. A guess off the top of my head is that a 140 amp machine (if it's named by it's current max) is going to be 3/16ths of an inch and under. If you don't want limitations with welding Aluminum you have to break the 225 amp threshold.

You also need U Grooved Driver Rollers.
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[Vanagon Nut]

It seems there are push-pull units that could be incorporated. But as you say, limited on thickness of work and yes, most likely 3/16".

If I ever delve into aluminum I think TIG will be the way to go. But then I'll have to convince the landlord to let me run new cable to the shop. ..... I think. Anyhow.....

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[theKbStockpiler]

I made a type O on the aluminum thickness. I meant to type 3/32 of an inch.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks. No problem; I make edits on the samba all the time.

My mind has been focused on thickness/design of intake flange at head so had that thickness in mind.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[modok]

Hobart sells a spool gun, in many cases they include it or give a discount on it with the 180-200 amp models, because I bet a lot of guys have the same idea you do, but it's mostly pie in the sky, they don't get used much. So maybe you can get a used one for cheap. the 180 and 140 probably use the same gun and cable, which is the same as miller. I "think" Mine are, but my stuff is older.

[Vanagon Nut]

thanks modok.

I may look into that option. Finding 1.25" exhaust pipe locally is proving futile. We'll see. Cost of setting up for aluminum in any way vs losing ~ 2" ground clearance by sticking with the stock intake.....

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[modok]

Perhaps looking for aluminumized?
1.25 tubing is commonly used for bicycles and racecars.
to the thrift store!

[Mike Fisher]

I'm guessing that you should be able to weld 3/16" as well as 3/32" aluminum with a proper 140 etc aluminum setup?
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[theKbStockpiler]

Here's Millers Welding AMP calculator.
https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/weld-setting-calculators/mig-solid-core-welding-calculator

With their rules a 140 is enough but Welder Manufacturer's rate their products higher than what they can do. Is a Hobart 140 spool gun ready?
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[modok]

the way I read it, their calculator says it won't work.
Look at the voltage. Not enough volts to reliably get into spray transfer.
There is a chart in the owners manual showing the amps/volts curves

It's same as my beloved 130xp miller, that's why I have it memorized

[theKbStockpiler]

Excellent point made Modok!

I researched this before I bought a TIG and the consensus was that you need 180 Amps+ to weld aluminum. If you start out with a modest MIG then you have to make a big jump up in equipment to have aluminum capabilities later on.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[Vanagon Nut]

Interesting and helpful comments here. Thanks. At this point I've ruled out building a custom intake. Its clear I'll need to get into a 220 Volt TIG to do any decent work. Of course I could do all the fabricating then, with any luck, adapt my Hobart with a nylon sleeve, argon, etc tac the parts then get a weldor to finish it. Maybe.... At some point I need to weigh cost and time VS lost ground clearance due to OEM cross flow intake.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[theKbStockpiler]

With your current equipment I would only get the liner and see how much pre-heating helps. You can see if all the birdnesting stories are true. Some of the big MIG's have high open voltage and stub into the workpiece a lot less but still do it. I would set the drivewheel pressure so the wire barely feeds and definately use U grooves.

I have a Chinesse TIG which works fine but they are not concerned with service or parts after the sale.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.

[Vanagon Nut]

So the Trimix I currently have would suffice for tac welds eh? I could live with "being out" a roll of wire and new liner should that setup not work.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[theKbStockpiler]

Some of this stuff is not experimented with because it is out of range with what is supposed to work.

Miller states that 'Short Circuit' transfer is not recommended which is what will happen if your voltage is too low. The wire will stub into the work and the feeder will birdnest. With Spray Transfer it does not repeatedly stub into the work. If the feeder slips and or the Stick Out gets too short the wire is said to get welded to the Tip.

The explanations of Constant Current and Constant Voltage welders are not complete so unless you look at a welder schematic it's hard to theorize on it. If the Open Voltage is higher than 'running voltage' it seems reasonable that the voltage does drop as current is increased like most other electrical devices. This would mean that if your current is maxed out the voltage will be way too low and it won't Spray Transfer.
I guess If I were to try it I would preheat ,have minimal driveroll tension and practice keeping the Stick Out as long as possible.


Here's a link on Stick Welding Aluminum

http://hildstrom.com/projects/stickaluminum/

Real men ,stick weld.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask.