Pep-talk please...

[Meyrickj]

Hey everyone,

I almost slapped a For Sale sign on my van the other day... I need a pep-talk.

I’ve owned it for a year now... a 1984 Vanagon Westfalia with a 1.9 AAZ. It’s in great shape. The previous owner did a lot with it, and I’ve taken it even further... it’s one that makes people look. A real head-turner.

But GRRRRR.... every single time I’ve taken it on any sort of road trip at all I’ve had to get it towed and ended up coming home on a bus with my van in some distant shop.

At this point I’ve replaced:

- the engine (yep... ouch.)
- the wiring
- the exhaust
- the wheels and tires
- the turbo (before the engine and then again with the engine)

I knew I was buying a project (I’ve owned a Eurovan Weekender before this that was some work...) but at this point I have no confidence in the vehicle at all.

I have a mechanic I trust that works on these all the time... he’s my best friend now and I drive his courtesy car more than my van. Soon he’ll be driving a Rolls Royce based on his 2017 financials...

Anyway, any advice? Did most of you go through this when you bought? Basically having to do everything once? I guess once I replace the clutch and transmission I’ll basically have replaced the entire vehicle.

If you answer please start your post with an estimate of how long since your last tow... I’m hoping to see some big numbers!

Thanks!

Meyrick. (2 Days since last tow!!!!)

[Mellow Yellow 74]

1985 1.9 lite auto - never broken down, never towed - didn’t start once due to loose battery terminal, ran out of fuel once when I first got it
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1962 Karmann Ghia
1974 Deluxe Microbus
1985 Caravelle (Vanagon)

[IdahoDoug]

Wow. I'd like to start by saying I can tell you love the vehicle and that's good news. It means you have the correct illogical fondness for this mechanical contrivance that will keep her rolling the highways and byways of life with you. So bravo for starters.

Secondly, I have been the owner of some high maintenance vehicles over the years and by far the number one thing that keeps me from getting towed home is a keen set of eyes, ears and a nose. Usually a mechanical device will tell you its in distress. A brief squeal on startup. A stumble whenever you fill up the tank all the way. A faint clunk when you first apply the brakes. A starter that hesitates (mine right now).

I'm not saying a lack of attention on your part caused any of this. But the reverse is true - that developing a keen vehicle awareness will prevent a lot of catastrophic failures and replace them with fixes of things that are "talking" to you rather than yelling.

So now that you have much of the work done to convert it into a more reliable vehicle, I think you should see how the next 6 months goes and THEN decide.

Doug
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1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[jimf909]

Last tow? 12? 15? years ago. It was the only tow for my two vans in 20'years (busted axle on the way home from work). I had a cooling system leak years ago and my 1.9 eventually puked (but got me home).

The van's been out well over 100 days, 13K miles and 20 some states this year and the worst was the odometer broke. I'm not bragging, I'm saying these vans can be reliable. You've got some bugs but I'm guessing that you're working through them. Nearly everything should be replaced on an 84 in the last 10 years, it sounds like you might be getting there.

Keep the faith.








(Or sell and buy a Sprinter. )
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- Jim

[16CVs]

Just remember that when you see the guy in the parking lot a year after you sell it he will say it is the most reliable vehicle he has ever ever had.

Stacy
_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Triple knob (bastard)
1989 Syncro Tristar Triple knob "Swedish"
2013 Jetta Hybrid a true "Zwitter"
Samba member # 14980
Call anytime number 650 722 4914 .
Keep Your van running and upkept tastefully for the love of the hobby.
Don't let your van end up in an "abortions" thread.

[RainierSyncro]

Bought Syncro out of Germany in 2014. Delivered to the Port of Tacoma.

First tow: At the dock. The shifter broke off at the floor. The people who put it on the ship and the one who rolled it off fried the clutch.

Second tow - The original motor was so rusty/crusty that it wouldn't hold an idle and stalled constantly. The shop swapped the motor with a WBX from my '90 GL.

Third tow - Gas gauge didn't work. Ran out of gas. Thought it was something else. Had the shop do some other work on it while it was there.

Fourth tow - Wouldn't turn over. Starter problems.

Fifth tow - The plastic coolant tower blew at a super busy intersection. The whole van was shrouded in a huge cloud of vaporized antifreeze. Got it home without damage. Back to the shop.

Sixth tow - Just got the van painted. Driving back home through downtown Seattle at night and it stalled on hwy 99. The shop said it was a wiring issue.

Seventh tow - Oil pressure sensor broke and lost almost all the oil out of the motor. No damage.

Replaced motor, exhaust, shocks, rear trailing arms, radiator, front & rear brakes, seats, both rear side windows (scratched up), wheels & tires, rear bumper, door cards, instrument cluster to one with a tach, new window seals, gas tank removal/clean-up, and a major dash out sorting of wires & fan repair. The trans was rebuilt too.

Still have it, but I've been pretty tempted to get some other cool Euro 4x4 like a Pinz, a Volvo TP21, or even a Fiat Campagnola. I'm sure if I get any of those, I'll be starting all over again. *sigh* Still need to go through the 4x4 system and finish the interior. An AAA membership is a very good investment.

[E1]

Our '84 showed 237,799 when we bought it, but last receipt from '99 showed 219K and that was 14 years before we bought so who knows???!!!!!!

A day short of five months later it started a 52-month trip as of tonight.

So we HAD to throw lots at it and have been where you are. Then on into camp comes daily stories from ex-owners, most of whom were where you are and over 90% tell tales of massive regret.

We just did about 10,000 miles without a single problem whatsoever... except hitting a bull deer a month ago... both he and the bus survived, but...

We have, however, had plenty of bad experiences with shops, even one of notable repute, so be a tougher customer than my gullible self has been sometimes. That alone had me thinking of selling more than anything else.

Give it time. It's expensive until you find Nirvana, and then it's only that. The people it brings to us far outweigh any and all expenses... and I type this lying in the lower bed in Death Valley.

It'll come good, stick it out.
_________________
‘84 Westy, 2.1L with Digijet, 5.43 R+P, GT Gears
"Adding power makes you faster on the straights.
Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
— Colin Chapman

[Alaskaberrys]

Hi Meyrickj, welcome to the Samba. Or often known as the hall of tears - just kidding

When we bought our ‘91 Westfalia a year and a half ago, we dumped as much as we paid for it into various upgrades and safety stuff - still have the engine, transmission and paint to go - all working right now....but they are 26 years old. It’s run absolutely flawlessly so far, but as Doug said, one ear/eyeball is always on the van. Not towed yet, but we’ve got the AAA.

On the other hand, this new bright idea of mine to import a syncro doka as a “daily driver” and “I’ll do the work myself” idea has been a tad depressing from time to time. It needs ALOT of attention and decides to breakdown usually when it’s most inconvenient. It’s a 1.9 AAZ also. Am learning a bit...just not on my schedule. Nearly towed twice and I’ve driven it a whole 175 kilometers - 108 miles.

Wouldn’t trade them for anything (and couldn’t sell them for what we have in them either )

Hope you make the right choice!
_________________
'91 Westfalia, Bordeaux Red Pearl 2.1L 2wd Auto
'91 T3 Syncro Doka, Escorial Green 1.9L TD AAZ “Gremian” (to provoke, irritate, exasperate, vex...)

[Vanagon Nut]

I'm thinking hard here but I don't recall either of my buses ever being on a tow hook since I've owned them. Wrong or right, I've done nearly all the work on them. My general intention was-is to replace any parts I had doubts about. Usually before any long trips. I also tried to limit my upgrades to where I thought it was sensible. e.g. I don't really care about the paint quality, South African grill or fancy wheels. But thats just me and I'm sure I'm missing out on something.

Theres a few significant potential factors involved in all this.

- can you do, do you want to do, do you have time to do, most or all of the work yourself?

- all due respect to the PO, were all the things done by him-her done correctly? i.e. were there things that had to be done over on your watch?

- a blunt way to put this, but how committed are you to the whole Vanagon/Westy thing?

- any engine swap, especially one done by a well intended DIY type (BTDT) runs the risk of having "bugs" to be worked out. Given the comments on your engine, that sounds like the bigger "reliability" issue.

I don't see them KM's on your van posted, and if they're really high that may play a part in all this but I'd suggest that unless you were able/willing to do some or all of the work on it, you run the risk of being susceptible to potentially poor work done by some mechanics. And for the record, I'm not saying the mechanic you're using now is in this category! I just get the sense that theres less and less mechanics out there who know anything about these old rides. But..... Don't for a second think that someone like me hasn't made mistakes. I have! In my case I've had the luxury of time (and list help!) to get these vans more or less dialled in to where I want them. More or less.....

It's a bunch of work to get these buses where you want them (reliable) and that never ends. But you can get to a point where its more or less just maintenance work. More or less.....

If you sell it, you will probably regret it, but the worlds' a big place right? A GM van can do a lot of the same things and you can have great camping trips in it too, IMO.

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[kamzcab86]

Almost 8 years of ownership, not one tow... yet (but I've had AAA since I turned 16).

The transmission was rebuilt before my purchase; the engine (approaching 200,000), to my knowledge, has never been rebuilt (just head gaskets).

I've been pretty dang lucky in that major issues popped up at home, either upon the end of a lengthy road trip (literally... twice, coolant puked as I parked in front of my house), or upon inspection before a trip. I'm always keeping an eye, ear, and nose out for potential issues. Most recent: Had the main seal replaced out of town; went to go home and heard the alternator bearings (not badly, but enough to realize there's an issue). Risked the 120-mile drive; made it home and immediately replaced the alternator (which was a fiasco).

I believe in preventative maintenance too, so a fair number of components have been replaced not because they needed to be, but because I was doing work to adjacent components (examples: replaced fuel lines, but replaced the injector O-rings and fuel rails at the same time; replaced water pump and did the hoses at the same time; replaced a dying starter, but did the coil too). So, I've probably put more money into the van than I actually needed to, but I don't put a price on piece of mind.

When buying an old vehicle, you need to expect that you're going to dump money into it. The general rule of thumb: What you pay for it, plan to put another half of that into it. You may not actually spend that half, but you should at least plan to.

My advice: Take some short trips to gain confidence. Once you're confident, then take longer trips. Don't make a decision on a whim or you might just regret it.
_________________
~Kamz
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子

[djkeev]

It is like a cheating Spouse or a friend who always lies.

You don't trust them now....... will you ever?

I trust my Van, it has taken me far. I just returned from a recent 8,000 mile trip.

Was it trouble free?

No, not completely but no towing was needed and I fixed troubles as they arose while traveling.

As Doug mentioned he is, I too am vigilant.
I do daily checks before departing, often upon arrival and also at rest stops.
I rarely listen to music, instead I listen to the vehicle and chat with my Wife.
She also listens and on occasion says "did you hear that?".
I feel the vehicle as I ride too.

I've been driving VW's since the 1960's, they are a finicky mistress. Unlike any other vehicle I've ever owned.

I cannot imagine owning a vehicle that I don't trust. What joy is there in travel?

What will break next?

I am guessing that you purchased an antique, accepted it as it was, got in and drove.
Things broke, you fixed them.
What have you done besides needed repairs?
Wheel bearings
CV joints
Oil seals
Brake lines
Brake fluid flush
Coolant hoses
Cooling componets prone to failure
Heater hoses
Heater cores and blowers
Fuel components prone to failure
Steering components
Electrical maintenance, cleaning grounds and connections
Alternator bearings
Etc etc etc

I spent three years and $1,000's in parts making my unit road worthy before my first drive. I flat bedded it home and never started it up for three years.

My first test drive was from NJ to Oregon.

My advice? Invest the time and money needed to make it truly road worthy or sell it. You can't keep fixing deferred preventative maintenance every trip.
Paying others to fix your Van gets expensive quickly. I also wonder about the quality of work commonly purchased today.


Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos

Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[Abscate]

Since 1990 I've towed home two cars out of a total of 18 owned ( large family)

One Volvo for a bad coil after a jump,start

My T4 after starter failure ..wire between solenoid and motor rusted away. It spoke to us and warned us this was happening with a slight delay between key and cranking.

Both towed home with a rope, less than 5 miles

All my drivers are wonderfully situationally aware with their ass for it bears them
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.ssS!

[dhaavers]

So far, 8 great years with my $3500 van; about the same amount put into it over that time.

Never towed, only sidelined twice for about 20 minutes each time:
- alt/WP belt jumped off (reinstalled & kept running - spare onboard but not needed)
- loose PS switch connector shorted out FI harness (worked around by pulling starter relay & kept running)

Once had to limp home with fried clutch...a minor inconvenience, but took me a month of Sundays to start & finish that project

Replaced transmission when started showing signs of 3/4 slider syndrome (instead of waiting until it completely died)

Love this little van!

- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[mikemtnbike]

I've come to realize that owning and trying to use any, in your case, 33 year old vehicle means you have to have a strangely romantic relationship with a material item.

I look out the window of my house, see my van, and it makes me smile. I have a chalkboard wall with two sayings on it to remind me of what's important to me- "Be Grateful" and "Seek Adventure." My van's vanity Euro front plate reads "ADVNTR," and I am grateful it helps me seek said.

It's this relationship that carries me through the breakdowns and no-starts I've had. Also, I enjoy learning how to do the mechanical work myself and after 2 1/2 years of ownership, learning, and frustration, I have a pretty good handle on how Frankie works, what s/he still needs, and what my limits are.

OP, I guess my point is when I've been in a similar mental space to yours, I've looked at my van and decided the highs were worth the lows. Kind of like any romantic relationship...
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[AZ Landshaper]

Ive been towed more times than I can count but I did the exact opposite thing any Cautious-Carol would do and I got that beast home and drove..and drove more after fixing the first reason I was towed. The story went on like that until I had repaired all that was causing me to break down.
I can drive the west coast and show you all the places I spent a week camped out fixing this and that. My wife cant believe how many of them there are and all the folks I know as a result. From Tucson to Tacoma and Mendocino to Massachusetts Ive been broken down all over kingdom come. But I buy vans for $1000. Not $12000.
Honestly though once I get things buttoned up and sailing w/o concern its time to sell it and move on to another one. Wheres the fun in knowing you will arrive on time? How would I meet new people if I drove through every town at 35mph?
To each his own. I love turning wrenches on my van. Maybe even a bit more than I love driving it and if these were the most reliable vehicles on the road John Muir would still be working at an engineering firm.

"Come to kindly terms with your ass, fore it bears you". JM.
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Support Small Business.

-------------------------------------------------------
85 Weekender w/ EJ22
Previously
64, 71, 72, 73, 76, 81, 84, 85 & 87 Campmobiles and Westfalias
and a 67 bug.

[DanHoug]

12 years ago i sold my '87 Westy, non-running needing an engine replacement, brakes locked up, heater cores leaking, etc. i was done with VWs and swore it would be my last. i hated them and divested myself of everything VW.

then several years ago i bought a Jetta Diesel on put 140,000 miles on straight waste vegetable oil after i convertered the car.

then last year i bought back my Westy, exactly as i sold it 12 years ago as it had been put away in a storage unit and i rebuilt the engine and transmission, put brakes in, etc. 1,000's of $$ into it and so far we are coming to terms with each other. it's like an alien spore gets in your body and makes you ditch all reason and want to buy a VW. and another.

so i'm totally with you when you say you want to get rid of it. just beware, you MAY want it back as you might have The Spore. but as i keep saying, these are antiques now and require a restoration approach to keep them in daily service.

-dan

[dougass]

Sounds like you may have a good egg and are going through the big ticket items.

Start doing some work yourself, leave the big stuff to your mechanic. You will build a relationship & better understanding with the van, and in return you will gain confidence.
_________________
'91 GL - 2.1 automatic named Klaus for weekend adventures.

#klausvan & @thisisklausvan

[dobryan]

Here is some hopeful reading.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=517708&highlight=make
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[Syncro Jael]

So far my van has never been on the hook or left me stranded.

I have driven Volkswagens most of my life and with all my vehicles I have slowly developed the mechanical skills to do about everything. I don't rebuild engines or transaxles, but can and have removed and replaced them. I purchased my vehicle and made it a plan to replace each system one by one. It takes time and money. The engine, transaxle, axles, bearings, seals, brakes, steering, air conditioning, cooling system, lighting, suspension, etc. Have all been replaced within the last 5 years.

I put a lot of miles on the van, over 20k per year, and it is not my daily driver but is my weekend and road trip warrior. This year we have logged over 29k miles alone. We love the convenience on vacation to just find a back road, pop the top, and camp wherever.

As Doug stated earlier I am in tune with all of the vans sounds. I can hear when something is not right. I also have multiple gauges to let me know something is up before the "idiot light" comes on. This has kept me from using the AAA card. Instead of the radio I talk with my wife more as we travel.

Once you get through all of your different components you will have less issues. Learn to turn a wrench more. It will give you confidence as you travel. These are antique vehicles now. They require a lot of attention to keep them reliable. But no other vehicle is as fun to travel in that I have owned. And no other vehicle will always gather as many people at the gas station.

Hang in there. There IS light at the end.

Did I say how much I love my VAN?

_________________
1987 Syncro Westfalia Hightop - NAHT
Subaru EJ25 Forged Frankenmotor, Triple Knob.
Jael = (Mountain Goat)

[sanchius]

^^^^ Wow, this says it all.

OP, the breakdowns sound extremely frustrating. All I can say is keep at it, they are amazing vehicles once you get them to a reliable state.

I'm working to get mine to SyncroJael's level, but for now I'm keeping my van on a 60mile leash until I trust it more.
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