My Detroit sandrail/pleasure craft... or "Carmela's Concession"

[heywebonya]

Dennis,

What rims are you planning to run? What is the back space?

I am running 31x10.5 r15 on a stock short axle 65 swing axle and have no issues.

Rather than switching axles and covers; see if the current set-up will work. I used to run a set of stock wheels "backwards" and this gave good back spacing for oversized tires.
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy!

[dennismcd707]

......I'm not switching axles. I only asked for an explanation on the long and short axle. I thought I had a long axle, but learned I didn't.

My wheels are 15 x 8 and the tires 31 x 10.5 x 15. Don't know about backspace yet, so I hope that's not gonna screw me over later. My hopes are the wheels are gonna bolt right on with no clearance issues. Did I drink the Kool-Aid?

[dustymojave]

Dennis, the way to measure the back space of a wheel is to lay it face down on flat ground, lay a straight edge across the rim (not the tire) and measure from the straight edge to the back side of the wheel center where it would touch the brake drum or disc brake rotor hub.

Stock VW wheels have 3.75" of back space.

Wheels that are offset to the outside tend to be hard on wheel bearings.

But ya kinda need to mock things up to see if they're gonna fit or not.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[heywebonya]

To add to Dusty's note, if you are putting wide tires (~ 10") on stockish rims (~7") there will be side bulge that may rub against your arms.

Look how much bulge my rims have.

Be awesome
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy!

[dennismcd707]

Richard, it's probably not a coincidence then that the wheel bearings and axle tube (maybe axle too, I don't know yet) on the transaxle that was in the rail when I bought it was all jacked up. The bearing race on one side was in pieces and the bearing housing all damaged. What do you think? Could they be related to the issue you're talking about? ("Wheels that are offset to the outside tend to be hard on wheel bearings")

Luckily for me, the person rebuilding my trans has an extra set of tubes and axles that he's selling to me, so nothing is holding me back there as far as my "mobility first" quest goes.

....also, Jeff. I'm not sure what you mean by 'BULGE', or which arms you're referring to when you noted that "BIGGER WHEELS MIGHT HIT YOUR ARMS".
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[heywebonya]

Dennis,

If you look closely at the rear wheels they "bulge" or overhang the rim by a good 1+ inches each side. This is why my rims are backwards or inside out for those tires.

Sorry for any confusion.

-Jeff
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If I knew what I was doing; I wouldn't be building a buggy!

[dennismcd707]

As Jeff can attest to, Michigan just got a whole bunch of rain the other day, including snow and ice, and I peeked in my garage for a reminder of my powerlessness. Puddles of water... where I'd normally be standing or laying. My garage needs work, and gutters will help out a great deal. They're on my 'TO DO' list, but priority wise .... first things first.

It's spring time gents, and I'm itchin' to get outside to start wrenching and welding. The 1641 engine is coming along too, almost gettin' too heavy to manipulate and move around.

.... which leads me to my transaxle. Neil, the guy who's rebuilding my trans, also sold me some different type 1 axles and tubes to replace the bent ones that were on the rail (from the PO). AND .... they're being powder coated as I write this. Kind of exciting "behind the scenes" stuff IMO. Thought I'd share.

And lastly, I spent a bunch of time beating this breast plate engine tin that sits under the crank pulley, only to find out that I don't really need it for anything. So I ask, on a rail, what other engine tin don't I need to worry about? Firewall tin (is that correct term?) and breastplate and what else? Less is better, but I'm happy to keep the important stuff. If it's all important, then say so. In other words, what don't I need?
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[Bashr52]

For a rail you really just need the shroud, Top cylinder tin and under cylinder deflector plates.

[dustymojave]

[dennismcd707]

........well I'm ready to buy some new tin. Everything I have is damaged in some shape or form, and with the brand new case (and 'EVERYTHING' on it), I just think it would look better with new tin. So, I guess I'm not sure if I'll go Super Tin or not, but I think I'll definitely get the toboggan tins.

hey, this whole project started because of my long time desire to build another air cooled engine, so technically speaking, I should be having the most fun at this stage right now. (...but I'm not. I want to get outside and start working on the rail!!! Kinda funny how that works out. It seems one door opens into the next again.)
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

Here's a recent video of me setting my distributor drive end play, TIME LAPSE style (really just fast forwarded), with the GoPro camera on my head.


Link

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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

Here's the new transmission. I'll be picking it up in a few days, along with my new/used axles and axle tubes. My old tubes were bent, so we decided to replace them along with the axles too. My VW trans guru, Neil, had an extra set, and we ended up getting them powder coated as well. I'm thinking about painting the trans black. We'll see how it looks when I have it home.

...... and here we are still fiddling around with the engine. I'd like to be farther along than I am, but I've been pretty busy lately. Oh well, it's nice to be out in the garage again.

_________________
1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

My old bus trans arrived......freshly rebuilt and screaming for some action. The tubes look nice too. I wish I didn't have so much yard work and landscaping to do at home. It distracts me from my hobbies. (I'm still putting the engine together & trying to do it right......and slow)

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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dustymojave]

So it's been converted to long spline long axles then?

No need for No-Hop setup that way.

What ring & pinion ratio did it get?
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[dennismcd707]

3.88 R & P, along with the close ratio 3rd and 4th. And as far as I know, these are short axles too, replacing my bent ones. We had noticed that one of the tubes was bent pretty good, so rather than taking any chances that the axle might be bent as well, we cleaned up and painted another pair that he had, still part of a transaxle from an early sixties type 1. (I think he said early 60's)
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

So all told, I ended up with the 3.88 R and P, and:
1st - 3.8
2nd - 2.06
3rd - 1.58 (bought brand new from Weddle)
4th - 1.32

I have a chart where speeds and RPM's are all listed and plotted out. What do you think, Richard? Are these ratios a good place to start? Do you think it will perform ok?
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dustymojave]

[madmike]

short axles should work but please don't use them Dual Bazooka headers they don't 'scavenge' and sound like a$$
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[dennismcd707]

The axles that came with the rail were short axles, so that's what I've got. If I should have been shopping for long axles, I didn't know. Actually, I wasn't shopping for axles at all. I was shopping for a tranny, and we noticed that my axle tubes were bent. Since they were bent, there was just another transaxle laying around, and I got the axles and tubes off of that one.

As far as my rail not being good crawling up the trails and hills, that sucks. That's exactly what I didn't want to have........and the reason for looking into gear ratios in the first place. I was assured that the trans would be good for off-roading, but we might need to tweek it to get it perfect. The only way to find out ......... I've got to finish up the engine and get things moving. Then, on the day that the stars align with Jupiter, I'll be able to test drive it. (but not until then)

....and lastly Madmike, I won't be using these dual exhaust headers with glass packs. I originally had plans swapping between two engines, but for now, I'm dealing with one engine (the 1641), and it will get the new Tri-Mil Bobtail Headers with a Quiet Pack Muffler
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)

[dennismcd707]

I was thinking about both wiring the rail for 12 volt power and installing the brake lines and master cylinder, but I don't know which project I should begin first. Or maybe even the gear shift mechanism, I'm not sure. (or maybe even the spring plates and torsion bars?)

From your experience, where's the best place to start? Electrical, brakes, or power train/trans and swing axles? The whole rail is basically in pieces. Any input would be appreciated. (Happy Memorial Day 2018 BTW)
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1971 Super Beetle, 1776, dual Weber's, roller crank, big valve modified racing heads, close ratio trans, lowered suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, car has over 368,000 actual miles. (RIP 1970 Beetle/Baja, 1986 GTI, 1999 Jetta, 2002 Jetta)