| Author |
Message |
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: Dead #1 cylinder |
 |
|
Got my motor to start but it only idles if I manually close and keep closed the choke on my solex 30 pict 2...
I also discovered that there is a miss...
I pulled each plug wire until I found the cylinder that was unaffected... cylinder 1
A few days ago I bought spark plug wires from my local o'rielys auto parts since the aircooled vw store I my area shut down and they supposedly have a life time warranty... the spark plugs are new NGK...I replaced the points and condenser and also have a new coil.
I plan on swapping out the spark plug wires and #1 spark plug
Any other suggestions
Motor is 1500 single port |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
bluebus86
Banned
Joined: September 02, 2010
Posts: 11075
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
Got my motor to start but it only idles if I manually close and keep closed the choke on my solex 30 pict 2...
I also discovered that there is a miss...
I pulled each plug wire until I found the cylinder that was unaffected... cylinder 1
A few days ago I bought spark plug wires from my local o'rielys auto parts since the aircooled vw store I my area shut down and they supposedly have a life time warranty... the spark plugs are new NGK...I replaced the points and condenser and also have a new coil.
I plan on swapping out the spark plug wires and #1 spark plug
Any other suggestions
Motor is 1500 single port |
if it only idles with choke on, that would suggest it is running too lean otherwise, right? so xheck the fuel pressure and carb for starts. how is the timing, valve adjustement?
once idling, even with choke on, take some flamable aerosol carb cleaner ans squirt it at the intakr maniolf connections and see if that causes a change in rpms, if so then there wojld be an intake leak at that point you sprayed the carb cleaner.
tell us more, did the motor run fine before, what was done to it since? new build, first start up? carb rebuilt, has carb been adjusted, etc... knkwing some more will help us help you.
but from the symptom, Id be thinking lean running is an issue. so do the carb cleaner test. dont forget any vacuum hoses off the carb or i take, check them too for leaks, make sure any vacuum can on the dizzie is leak fight too. manifold to head leak, carb base leak.
else maybe fuel pressure is too low, do you detect gasoline in the pil, smell the dip stick, if so the pump diaphram is probably leaking, which will allow gasoline into the crank case, and cause low fuel prlressur
many possibilities
tell use more details of what happened before the problem occured
Good Luck, Bug On!
_________________
Help Prevent VW Engine Fires, see this link.....Engine safety wire information
Stop introducing dirt into your oil when adjusting valves ... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=683022 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31362
Location: Hot Arizona
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
I also discovered that there is a miss...
I pulled each plug wire until I found the cylinder that was unaffected... cylinder 1 |
That's when I would've swapped the spark wires completely for #1 and #2, to see if the issue stays with #1 or "travels" with the spark plug wire.
I also confirm to do a compression check, and check that the pushrods for cylinder #1 are in the rocker cup ends.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
Bluebus86
Fuel pressure 3.1
I set static timing then used a timing light to get 32* advance
Checked Valve clearance twice everything is set to .006
I bought the bug got it home and was able to start it up and it would idle, just very poorly and for 2 to 3 mins. I pulled the motor out and found a cracked head...I replaced the head and realized the intake manifold was rusted thru and the heat risers are completely clogged, I bought a new one and installed. I disassembled the carb and cleaned installed new gaskets and float Valve. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| Cusser wrote: |
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
I also discovered that there is a miss...
I pulled each plug wire until I found the cylinder that was unaffected... cylinder 1 |
That's when I would've swapped the spark wires completely for #1 and #2, to see if the issue stays with #1 or "travels" with the spark plug wire.
I also confirm to do a compression check, and check that the pushrods for cylinder #1 are in the rocker cup ends. |
Great idea...I will try this and let you know what I find |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
You say that #1 is not firing at idle. Test this again at around 2000rpm. It is not uncommon for a cylinder to struggle firing at idle but runs normally once the rpms rise. If there is no diff with the #1 plug wire connected/not connected at 2000rpm then you know your cylinder is dead.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:38 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| ashman40 wrote: |
| You say that #1 is not firing at idle. Test this again at around 2000rpm. It is not uncommon for a cylinder to struggle firing at idle but runs normally once the rpms rise. If there is no diff with the #1 plug wire connected/not connected at 2000rpm then you know your cylinder is dead. |
I picked up new plug wires today...I will try this sometime this week it is hard for me to work on my bug certain days... thank u for the input I greatly appreciate it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
So installed new plug wires and condenser (even though the one on that was on there I had just put on) and Im still having the same issue...will not run longer than 15 to 20 seconds unless I feather the throttle af the carb and it sounds like it is missing
So here is what I am noticing...
When I go to static test the timing as I rotate the distributor, the points making a popping noise and arc. Nothing is touching the distributor and the condenser is hooked to the negative side of the coil, points are gapped correctly and I cant get it to run long enough to check dwell.
Help me please someone |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| When I go to static test the timing as I rotate the distributor, the points making a popping noise and arc. Nothing is touching the distributor and the condenser is hooked to the negative side of the coil |
Concerning the underlined part of your description... does this mean the condenser is NOT attached to the body of the distributor? The condenser grounds by it being screwed down to the distributor body. If the condenser is hanging off the coil and not connected to anything it is basically disabled.
The function of the condenser is to reduce the arcing between the points (which extends the life of the points) and to extend the duration of the primary winding collapse resulting in a longer/stronger secondary spark. It can only do this if properly installed. A sign that the condenser is not working is a noticeable arc at the points like you described (a small spark is normal).
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| ... points are gapped correctly and I cant get it to run long enough to check dwell. |
You don't need the engine running to set/check dwell.
Remove the center wire from the distributor cap and ground the end. This gives the coil a path to ground for the spark.
Remove the distributor cap and rotor.
Slightly loosen the screw that holds down the points so you can adjust them, but not so loose that they move freely.
Connect your dwell meter.
Have a helper crank the engine while you read the dwell meter.
While you are reading the dwell adjust the point opening until you get a reading in the 44-50deg range.
Stop cranking and tighten the hold down screw for the points.
Retest the dwell just to make sure it hasn't changed.
Static time your distributor to 7BTDC just to get it started.
Reconnect everything as normal.
Double check that the firing order is correct. This means not just the rotational order (CW 1-4-3-2), but that when the #1 cylinder is at the end of the compression stroke (check valve motion) the rotor is pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap.
Your ignition should be close enough for the engine to run.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
It's not unusual for the points to pop like that when setting your time statically, I wouldn't worry about it.
The fact you have to feather the throttle or hold the choke closed for it to run points squarely toward a mixture problem in the idle circuit. The mixture problem may be due to the carb itself, or it could be a vacuum leak -- since cylinder 1 seems suspect in this case, I would spray some carb cleaner at the point where the intake manifold meets the head to see if the engine changes rpm. If it does, suspect either a bad manifold seal or a loose connection. If no vacuum leak is present, I'd move next to the carb. Remove and clean the idle jet, also spray some carb cleaner through the idle passages where the idle jet screws in to help clear them out. Reinstall the idle jet and see if that fixes or improves how the car runs. Depending on how dirty the carb is, it may be necessary to remove the carb, disassemble it, and soak it to effectively clean out the passages. In addition to a dirty/clogged idle circuit, the problem may be caused by the volume control screw being turned in too far.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| mukluk wrote: |
It's not unusual for the points to pop like that when setting your time statically, I wouldn't worry about it.
The fact you have to feather the throttle or hold the choke closed for it to run points squarely toward a mixture problem in the idle circuit. The mixture problem may be due to the carb itself, or it could be a vacuum leak -- since cylinder 1 seems suspect in this case, I would spray some carb cleaner at the point where the intake manifold meets the head to see if the engine changes rpm. If it does, suspect either a bad manifold seal or a loose connection. If no vacuum leak is present, I'd move next to the carb. Remove and clean the idle jet, also spray some carb cleaner through the idle passages where the idle jet screws in to help clear them out. Reinstall the idle jet and see if that fixes or improves how the car runs. Depending on how dirty the carb is, it may be necessary to remove the carb, disassemble it, and soak it to effectively clean out the passages. In addition to a dirty/clogged idle circuit, the problem may be caused by the volume control screw being turned in too far. |
I forgot to mention that no matter if I bottom out the idle mixture screw or turn it until it is almost out of the carb that I get no difference in the way it idles |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7023
Location: Clyde, TX
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| I forgot to mention that no matter if I bottom out the idle mixture screw or turn it until it is almost out of the carb that I get no difference in the way it idles |
Things such as this are very useful to know when troubleshooting problems and should be included in the original query for assistance.
Your carb needs to be thoroughly cleaned out then readjusted.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
I just noticed last night...
I had disassembled the carb a few weeks back and soaked it over night in a carb clean dip basket...
I will try this again
Last edited by i_luv_my_bus76 on Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| I had disassembled the carb a few weeks back and soaked it over night in a carb cleaned dip basket... |
After this, did you blow all the passages clear w/ compressed air (90psi, not the kind from a can)?
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| ashman40 wrote: |
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| I had disassembled the carb a few weeks back and soaked it over night in a carb cleaned dip basket... |
After this, did you blow all the passages clear w/ compressed air (90psi, not the kind from a can)? |
I used 120 psi compressed dry nitrogen...I work on cryogenic and high pressure vessels...120 is the lowest our compressor goes and we run our shop tools off nitrogen instead of compressed air |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| Starbucket wrote: |
| Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot). |
There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15982
Location: North Florida, USA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| I used 120 psi compressed dry nitrogen...I work on cryogenic and high pressure vessels...120 is the lowest our compressor goes and we run our shop tools off nitrogen instead of compressed air |
Impressive! A bit excessive, but definitely impressive. 
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i? |
The function of the idle cutoff solenoid is to cut fuel flow to the idle circuit when the ignition switch is turned OFF. This prevents engine run on.
So if your engine does not experience run on/dieseling when you turn the ignition OFF you don't need to worry about a cutoff solenoid.
If you have one and it is not working it makes it hard to get the engine to idle.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
i_luv_my_bus76
Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2012
Posts: 371
Location: High Desert
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| ashman40 wrote: |
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| I used 120 psi compressed dry nitrogen...I work on cryogenic and high pressure vessels...120 is the lowest our compressor goes and we run our shop tools off nitrogen instead of compressed air |
Impressive! A bit excessive, but definitely impressive.
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i? |
The function of the idle cutoff solenoid is to cut fuel flow to the idle circuit when the ignition switch is turned OFF. This prevents engine run on.
So if your engine does not experience run on/dieseling when you turn the ignition OFF you don't need to worry about a cutoff solenoid.
If you have one and it is not working it makes it hard to get the engine to idle. |
Thank you...I knew it was excessive but figured it would hurt anything:-)
My carb doesn't have the idle cut off...it ran before all this but I had an issue with clogged heat risers...I replaced the manifold now Im fighting this issue |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder |
|
|
| i_luv_my_bus76 wrote: |
| Starbucket wrote: |
| Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot). |
There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?
|
Only if it has "run on issues" when you shut it off or your carb is dead and you have one. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
