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Dead #1 cylinder
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i_luv_my_bus76
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot).


There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?

Only if it has "run on issues" when you shut it off or your carb is dead and you have one.


Where is it located
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
ashman40 wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
I used 120 psi compressed dry nitrogen...I work on cryogenic and high pressure vessels...120 is the lowest our compressor goes and we run our shop tools off nitrogen instead of compressed air

Impressive! A bit excessive, but definitely impressive. Cool


i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?

The function of the idle cutoff solenoid is to cut fuel flow to the idle circuit when the ignition switch is turned OFF. This prevents engine run on.
So if your engine does not experience run on/dieseling when you turn the ignition OFF you don't need to worry about a cutoff solenoid.
If you have one and it is not working it makes it hard to get the engine to idle.


Thank you...I knew it was excessive but figured it would hurt anything:-)

My carb doesn't have the idle cut off...it ran before all this but I had an issue with clogged heat risers...I replaced the manifold now Im fighting this issue


I think it's the new manifold. Did you get the old seals out of the head and use new ones? Lean running, wont idle = big air leak. I would look very close at the head/manifold area to see if the thing is seated in the head.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot).


There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?

Only if it has "run on issues" when you shut it off or your carb is dead and you have one.


Where is it located

throttle side of carb.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Where is it located
throttle side of carb.

Actually, for the 30Pict-2 and 30Pict-3 that DID have the cut off solenoid it was on the opposite side from the throttle arm. This is apparently a pic of a 30Pict-2:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The later 31Pict and 34Pict (which most are familiar with) moved the solenoid to the throttle arm side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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i_luv_my_bus76
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
ashman40 wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
I used 120 psi compressed dry nitrogen...I work on cryogenic and high pressure vessels...120 is the lowest our compressor goes and we run our shop tools off nitrogen instead of compressed air

Impressive! A bit excessive, but definitely impressive. Cool


i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?

The function of the idle cutoff solenoid is to cut fuel flow to the idle circuit when the ignition switch is turned OFF. This prevents engine run on.
So if your engine does not experience run on/dieseling when you turn the ignition OFF you don't need to worry about a cutoff solenoid.
If you have one and it is not working it makes it hard to get the engine to idle.


Thank you...I knew it was excessive but figured it would hurt anything:-)

My carb doesn't have the idle cut off...it ran before all this but I had an issue with clogged heat risers...I replaced the manifold now Im fighting this issue


I think it's the new manifold. Did you get the old seals out of the head and use new ones? Lean running, wont idle = big air leak. I would look very close at the head/manifold area to see if the thing is seated in the head.




I installed new manifold gaskets...I did have a hard time with the left side of the manifold, I can look again tomorrow for gaps...I think I'm going to check the carb bottom and make sure it is flat
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i_luv_my_bus76
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
Does the solenoid on the carb click when you turn the key on? If not it wont run at idle unless you pump the gas (that will let it run off of the acc. pump shot).


There isn't an idle solenoid on this carb... I have a solex 30 pict 2...I was thinking of swapping the carb out to one with a idle solenoid, should i?

Only if it has "run on issues" when you shut it off or your carb is dead and you have one.


Where is it located

throttle side of carb.


Mine does not have one
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i_luv_my_bus76
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

ashman40 wrote:
Starbucket wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
Where is it located
throttle side of carb.

Actually, for the 30Pict-2 and 30Pict-3 that DID have the cut off solenoid it was on the opposite side from the throttle arm. This is apparently a pic of a 30Pict-2:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


The later 31Pict and 34Pict (which most are familiar with) moved the solenoid to the throttle arm side.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I do not have an idle cutoff solenoid...I can take a few pics, it also doesn't look like it ever did have one either
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Some people removed the idle solenoid and simply screwed in a jet in it's place. That's not uncommon. You may pull that jet and see what size it is.

Does the engine idle while on choke? If it does then dies off choke it points to (as mentioned) a vacuum leak or a clogged idle circuit or jet.

You mentioned you disassembled the carb and dunked it in carb cleaner. You then blew out the passages. A few years ago I did the same with a stubborn Solex 34-3 carb that wouldn't idle off choke. Someone suggested getting an ultrasonic parts cleaner as it's the only thing that really cleans the passages out deep inside the carb body.

I bought a $70 dollar Harbor Freight unit. I stuck my disassembled carb body that I "thought" was spotless into it with a degreaser. An hour later the water was black and nasty. I was shocked what it vibrated out of the carb. I reassembled the carb after blowing carb cleaner through all the passages and blew them out as well.

The carb idled beautifully. My point of this story is how well and effective the ultrasonic cleaner was in cleaning the deep inside passage out of the carb.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
Some people removed the idle solenoid and simply screwed in a jet in it's place. That's not uncommon. You may pull that jet and see what size it is.

Does the engine idle while on choke? If it does then dies off choke it points to (as mentioned) a vacuum leak or a clogged idle circuit or jet.

You mentioned you disassembled the carb and dunked it in carb cleaner. You then blew out the passages. A few years ago I did the same with a stubborn Solex 34-3 carb that wouldn't idle off choke. Someone suggested getting an ultrasonic parts cleaner as it's the only thing that really cleans the passages out deep inside the carb body.

I bought a $70 dollar Harbor Freight unit. I stuck my disassembled carb body that I "thought" was spotless into it with a degreaser. An hour later the water was black and nasty. I was shocked what it vibrated out of the carb. I reassembled the carb after blowing carb cleaner through all the passages and blew them out as well.

The carb idled beautifully. My point of this story is how well and effective the ultrasonic cleaner was in cleaning the deep inside passage out of the carb.


A few weeks ago it idled fine just died when the manifold iced up died to plugged heat risers...Im going to try the ultrasonic cleaner, which degreaser did u use
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
Some people removed the idle solenoid and simply screwed in a jet in it's place. That's not uncommon. You may pull that jet and see what size it is.

Does the engine idle while on choke? If it does then dies off choke it points to (as mentioned) a vacuum leak or a clogged idle circuit or jet.

You mentioned you disassembled the carb and dunked it in carb cleaner. You then blew out the passages. A few years ago I did the same with a stubborn Solex 34-3 carb that wouldn't idle off choke. Someone suggested getting an ultrasonic parts cleaner as it's the only thing that really cleans the passages out deep inside the carb body.

I bought a $70 dollar Harbor Freight unit. I stuck my disassembled carb body that I "thought" was spotless into it with a degreaser. An hour later the water was black and nasty. I was shocked what it vibrated out of the carb. I reassembled the carb after blowing carb cleaner through all the passages and blew them out as well.

The carb idled beautifully. My point of this story is how well and effective the ultrasonic cleaner was in cleaning the deep inside passage out of the carb.


A few weeks ago it idled fine just died when the manifold iced up died to plugged heat risers...Im going to try the ultrasonic cleaner, which degreaser did u use


I'm not suggesting this is your problem, only that to really clean these carbs well, an ultrasonic cleaner is very effective. The 30-2 carb has a metering screw that's factory set and isn't removable w/out a lot of work. Vibrating the carb get's all the junk out of those tiny passages.

You should check what the idle cut off (pilot) jet size is that's installed in place of the idle cut off solenoid. There's a chance that there's something stuck in there causing the carb to not idle.

I used Dawn dish soap mixed with the water. The Harbor Freight cleaner has a heater function. It get the water HOT to like 130* which also helps loosen all the crap up in those tiny passages deep inside the carb body.

Off all the VW carbs I've run, the 30-2 has always been the most problematic in picking up crap in the idle circuit/jets and not idling as a result.

Here's a thread about the meterings screw. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=309831&
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
Some people removed the idle solenoid and simply screwed in a jet in it's place. That's not uncommon. You may pull that jet and see what size it is.

Does the engine idle while on choke? If it does then dies off choke it points to (as mentioned) a vacuum leak or a clogged idle circuit or jet.

You mentioned you disassembled the carb and dunked it in carb cleaner. You then blew out the passages. A few years ago I did the same with a stubborn Solex 34-3 carb that wouldn't idle off choke. Someone suggested getting an ultrasonic parts cleaner as it's the only thing that really cleans the passages out deep inside the carb body.

I bought a $70 dollar Harbor Freight unit. I stuck my disassembled carb body that I "thought" was spotless into it with a degreaser. An hour later the water was black and nasty. I was shocked what it vibrated out of the carb. I reassembled the carb after blowing carb cleaner through all the passages and blew them out as well.

The carb idled beautifully. My point of this story is how well and effective the ultrasonic cleaner was in cleaning the deep inside passage out of the carb.


A few weeks ago it idled fine just died when the manifold iced up died to plugged heat risers...Im going to try the ultrasonic cleaner, which degreaser did u use


I'm not suggesting this is your problem, only that to really clean these carbs well, an ultrasonic cleaner is very effective. The 30-2 carb has a metering screw that's factory set and isn't removable w/out a lot of work. Vibrating the carb get's all the junk out of those tiny passages.

You should check what the idle cut off (pilot) jet size is that's installed in place of the idle cut off solenoid. There's a chance that there's something stuck in there causing the carb to not idle.

I used Dawn dish soap mixed with the water. The Harbor Freight cleaner has a heater function. It get the water HOT to like 130* which also helps loosen all the crap up in those tiny passages deep inside the carb body.

Off all the VW carbs I've run, the 30-2 has always been the most problematic in picking up crap in the idle circuit/jets and not idling as a result.

Here's a thread about the meterings screw. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=309831&


I appreciate the information...I have a bunch of parts and a set of kadrons I need to disassemble and clean as well as a few distributors that ultrasonic cleaner will definitely come in handy plus I dint think cleaning the carb again would hurt anything
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

@wcfvw69 I bought one of those harbor freight cleaners...it worked great...the water was real dirty after even though the carb looked clean... the motor will cut on and idle until the choke opens then it dies...to me it seems as if it is too far open and it warms up but I could be mistaken, I don't have much experience with chokes, my bus and fastback have dual carbs, weber's and kadrons...

Any suggestions on setting the choke element?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

You need to get a vacuum gage and make sure you have at least 18 in. vac. (measure from a port under the butterfly) with choke on and when it opens, it should be about the same, if not (a lot lower), you have a vacuum leak. The choke adjusts by backing the 3 screws off SLOWLY until you can move the center part (mark with a felt pin where you are at now so you can get back, if needed) and move the center part until the choke barely closes, open by moving center R or L then return to barely closing (engine cold) and that is it.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
@wcfvw69 I bought one of those harbor freight cleaners...it worked great...the water was real dirty after even though the carb looked clean... the motor will cut on and idle until the choke opens then it dies...to me it seems as if it is too far open and it warms up but I could be mistaken, I don't have much experience with chokes, my bus and fastback have dual carbs, weber's and kadrons...

Any suggestions on setting the choke element?


Where are you at with the idle cut-off solenoid? Have you installed a correct electronic shut off one or is there just a screwed in jet? If it idles when the chokes on, it means your engine likes the rich mixture. When the choke opens, the mixture leans out and it dies.

As mentioned above, you have to insure you have no vacuum leaks anywhere. I'd also pull that jet thats installed in place of the idle shut off solenoid and see what size it is and insure it's clean and clear.

Can you post some pictures of your engine?
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

wcfvw69 wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
@wcfvw69 I bought one of those harbor freight cleaners...it worked great...the water was real dirty after even though the carb looked clean... the motor will cut on and idle until the choke opens then it dies...to me it seems as if it is too far open and it warms up but I could be mistaken, I don't have much experience with chokes, my bus and fastback have dual carbs, weber's and kadrons...

Any suggestions on setting the choke element?


Where are you at with the idle cut-off solenoid? Have you installed a correct electronic shut off one or is there just a screwed in jet? If it idles when the chokes on, it means your engine likes the rich mixture. When the choke opens, the mixture leans out and it dies.

As mentioned above, you have to insure you have no vacuum leaks anywhere. I'd also pull that jet thats installed in place of the idle shut off solenoid and see what size it is and insure it's clean and clear.

Can you post some pictures of your engine?


Yeah I don't have a cut off solenoid installed on my carb there is what seems to be a jet...I can pull it shortly and let you know what size it is as well as get you a pic or 2

As far as vacuum leaks go I have checked every possible source with ether and haven't found any

According to the instructions a few posts up regarding to choke element, that is the exact way I installed mine. The issue I am having is that it will run fine with the choke on, it will even run well all the way up untill 90% open, but the last little bit opening makes it stumble and die...to me it seems as if the choke and the cam plate aren't timed (if there is a way to do so) or I still don't have my choke adjusted correctly. I say this because when fully open and it starts to want to die I can barely move the choke, Im talking like a 1/32nd to a 1/16th of an inch and it will start to idle perfectly
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
wcfvw69 wrote:
i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
@wcfvw69 I bought one of those harbor freight cleaners...it worked great...the water was real dirty after even though the carb looked clean... the motor will cut on and idle until the choke opens then it dies...to me it seems as if it is too far open and it warms up but I could be mistaken, I don't have much experience with chokes, my bus and fastback have dual carbs, weber's and kadrons...

Any suggestions on setting the choke element?


Where are you at with the idle cut-off solenoid? Have you installed a correct electronic shut off one or is there just a screwed in jet? If it idles when the chokes on, it means your engine likes the rich mixture. When the choke opens, the mixture leans out and it dies.

As mentioned above, you have to insure you have no vacuum leaks anywhere. I'd also pull that jet thats installed in place of the idle shut off solenoid and see what size it is and insure it's clean and clear.

Can you post some pictures of your engine?


Yeah I don't have a cut off solenoid installed on my carb there is what seems to be a jet...I can pull it shortly and let you know what size it is as well as get you a pic or 2

As far as vacuum leaks go I have checked every possible source with ether and haven't found any

According to the instructions a few posts up regarding to choke element, that is the exact way I installed mine. The issue I am having is that it will run fine with the choke on, it will even run well all the way up untill 90% open, but the last little bit opening makes it stumble and die...to me it seems as if the choke and the cam plate aren't timed (if there is a way to do so) or I still don't have my choke adjusted correctly. I say this because when fully open and it starts to want to die I can barely move the choke, Im talking like a 1/32nd to a 1/16th of an inch and it will start to idle perfectly


Out of curiosity, does this engine have the thermostat and flaps installed? Is it running a stock muffler with clear heat risers in the carb manifold? Have you kept the motor running with your hand feathering the throttle for say 5 to 8 minutes so the motor reaches operating temperature, then see if it will idle?

Originally when all the correct cold engine running parts were installed (thermostat/flaps/stove pipe, working oil bath) at the factory, they set the choke timing to open in a set time frame. This time was based on the flaps and the thermostat being in place. The stock muffler was supplying the correct amount of hot exhaust to those long intake runners to warm them up and keep the air/fuel mixture in suspension down the runners. The warm air inlet was feeding hot air to the carb via the stove pipe and working oil bath warm air flap. So, the engine reached the correct temperature in time with the choke opening up completely.

If any of these pieces are not working or in place, the original chokes timing will be way off. The choke will open even though the engine isn't at a warm enough temp to idle off choke.

There's TONS of air cooled VW's out there that have perfectly fine carbs, chokes, etc. They won't idle off choke either because of the missing parts I mentioned. My 70' bus when I bought it was the same way. It would take 5-8 minutes for the engine to warm up enough to idle off choke because it was missing all those same parts.

Now that they've been reinstalled, the engine runs perfectly when it's started first thing in the am.
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Last edited by wcfvw69 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

Here are a few pics of my motor...don't judge me I plan on cleaning up the wiring and everything else messy once I get the motor idling on it's own... also I removed the front cooling tin when I replaced the intake manifold

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


@wcfvw69 the manifold is brand new so the heat risers are clean and clear, the thermostat and flaps are missing and the oil bath was sitting in the passenger side floor when I bought the bug...

I am going to try what you suggested about letting it run for 5 to 8 mins when I get back home...and I forgot to pull the jet where the idle cutoff solenoid might have been

Thank you for helping... I've never been so lost
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!

So my issue was that I had the choke all wrong...she starts and idles nicely except for a miss...
When I pull the plug wires for cylinders 1 and 2 the motor is uneffected...i changed the spark plugs and it ran and idled smoothly but shortly after 1 and 2 went dead again...

Any suggestions
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

i_luv_my_bus76 wrote:
SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!!

So my issue was that I had the choke all wrong...she starts and idles nicely except for a miss...
When I pull the plug wires for cylinders 1 and 2 the motor is uneffected...i changed the spark plugs and it ran and idled smoothly but shortly after 1 and 2 went dead again...

Any suggestions


Check the carb manifold where it bolts to the head on 1/2. Sounds like a vacuum leak.
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Starbucket
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Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4026
Location: WA
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Dead #1 cylinder Reply with quote

You say "Went dead again" were the plugs fouled? oily? melted? carbon stuck between plug gap?, How did they go dead? White as snow = big vacuum leak.
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