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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:31 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

oxsign wrote:
Ok so, I did the jumper thing on the sending units on the MC and not brake lights. I checked the “bridge/jumper” at the back by the motor and still no brakes. I do have tail lights, turn signals, hazards, and reverse lights. I just don’t have any brake lights. Fuses all are good and making proper contact.

I guess the next thing would be to try and chase the wire(s) and see if there’s a brake in there somewhere??


Do you have power (12V) on the black wire? If not, you won't get brake lights. You can also jump the switch, and see if you have power on the black w/red stripe wire going to the rear of the car (for the brake lights). There's a 3 way connector under the cardboard just under the brake rez, that you can check for power (MUST have the key on).
Look at the fuse box to make sure you don't have a blown fuse.
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

Bobnotch wrote:
oxsign wrote:
Ok so, I did the jumper thing on the sending units on the MC and not brake lights. I checked the “bridge/jumper” at the back by the motor and still no brakes. I do have tail lights, turn signals, hazards, and reverse lights. I just don’t have any brake lights. Fuses all are good and making proper contact.

I guess the next thing would be to try and chase the wire(s) and see if there’s a brake in there somewhere??


Do you have power (12V) on the black wire? If not, you won't get brake lights. You can also jump the switch, and see if you have power on the black w/red stripe wire going to the rear of the car (for the brake lights). There's a 3 way connector under the cardboard just under the brake rez, that you can check for power (MUST have the key on).
Look at the fuse box to make sure you don't have a blown fuse.


I'll have to check power to the blk wire.
I'm not familiar with the 3 way connector but I'll look for that as well.
Fuses I went through and replaced all the "bad" ones. I will look behind the fuse panel though and see if there is anything that looks out of place there as well.

Thanks for the things to look for. I'm off tomorrow and i'll be tackling that.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

oxsign wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 3 way connector but I'll look for that as well.


I went years without knowing about that connector. It was used to aid assembly in the factory, but today it makes a damn convenient check point when troubleshooting those circuits!
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
oxsign wrote:
I'm not familiar with the 3 way connector but I'll look for that as well.


I went years without knowing about that connector. It was used to aid assembly in the factory, but today it makes a damn convenient check point when troubleshooting those circuits!
Yup, first i've heard about it honestly and I did a search too, lol. That's where I read about using a jumper between the sending units at the MC. Never thought of that either. It's definitely a good place with good people to trouble shoot with, lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

There is such a gawdawful Medusa's Head of wiring under the left dash inside (my least favorite part of the Type 3 design), so having easy access to those circuits in the frunk makes finding an open or short so much easier. Otherwise you pull two more wires loose while pulling one on the inside to get a continuity or voltage reading.
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
There is such a gawdawful Medusa's Head of wiring under the left dash inside (my least favorite part of the Type 3 design), so having easy access to those circuits in the frunk makes finding an open or short so much easier. Otherwise you pull two more wires loose while pulling one on the inside to get a continuity or voltage reading.
EXACTLY!!!!! I'd much rather work on the wife's Ghia because of that, lol.
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

On another note, I did get a temp tag last week and enjoyed driving around. I went to a big show on Saturday and even got a mini shoot (real pix later) with a model that asked for my car. Then I went through a Hot Rod show at Hooters on Sunday. These are all the pix I've been tagged in from both shows. Car got A LOT more attention than I ever thought it would, lol.


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notchboy
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

Those mixed shows are the best kind to go to with an air cooled Vdub. The ladies love VW's Wink Cool Laughing
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:32 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

notchboy wrote:
Those mixed shows are the best kind to go to with an air cooled Vdub. The ladies love VW's Wink Cool Laughing
it is pretty fun. The last 15yrs or so I really got in to mini trucks/bags/etc. so a lot of these shows I’ll be going to will be a lot of that. It’s cool though cause at least it’ll be something different there, lol. It’s hasn't been but the last 4yrs or so I’ve slowly gotten back in to VWs once again.
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

I want to make sure I’m checking the right thing. ‘71 square, this is the correct splitter I need to be checking right?? I’ve read in some threads that it’s a 4way. This one is a 3way.

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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

oxsign wrote:
I want to make sure I’m checking the right thing. ‘71 square, this is the correct splitter I need to be checking right?? I’ve read in some threads that it’s a 4way. This one is a 3way.

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That's the back up lights connector. The 3 way connector I was talking about, looks like 3 singles connected together as 1 piece. It's for joining 3 sets of wires from inside the car, to the master cylinder. I think 1 of the wires feeding the top side, also powers the horn on 72-73's (you'd have to ask a 72-73 owner to know for sure). Like I said, it should be located below the master cylinder on the left side near the top corner of the fuel tank. Probably under the trunk liner if it's still there.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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Tram wrote:
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:32 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

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Ok, checked this one and no power to it on any of them. Confused
I’m under the fuse block now and checking there.......
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

I want to make sure I’m checking the right thing. ‘71 square, this is the correct splitter I need to be checking right?? I’ve read in some threads that it’s a 4way. This one is a 3way.

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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:43 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

So looking at the diagram on that 3way (6way) under the hood.
Blk wire is power supplied from the fuse panel.
Red/blk goes to MC to rear.
Red goes to brake light on dash.

So I have no power to it, I’ll go to the fuse panel and see what’s going on there.


Side note/question, switching to an alt (actual bug alt) wouldn’t have an affect on the light would it??
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:09 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

That connector is labeled T3 in the wiring diagram, next to the fusebox (click to enlarge).
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The horn uses one of the tabs as a power tap (black with yellow stripe). Keep in mind the horn has power with key on, and sounds when it is grounded through the steering wheel button. Source for this power is the same fuse as for the brake lights (third from right). So if you have no power with the key on, check that fuse first.


Last edited by KTPhil on Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:15 am; edited 3 times in total
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

So both of these wiring diagrams are posted here under 1971 and they don’t match each other. Worse yet, it doesn’t look like mine matches either of them. I’m afraid to move/change anything on mine cause it did work before. wiring is the worst thing, lol. All I can do is laugh.......

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

The first diagram is a supplement showing other devices we are not concerned with here, so ignore it.

The second one is correct for '71. What is your chassis number (first half dozen digits will tell)?
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:16 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
The first diagram is a supplement showing other devices we are not concerned with here, so ignore it.

The second one is correct for '71. What is your chassis number (first half dozen digits will tell)?

3612164136
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

Ok, so definitely a '71, not an early one. Just curious, does yours have a bunch of extra wires for the diagnostic connector in the engine bay? That can complicate things. Another midyear change was to the brake check light wiring. Earlies made you press the dash button to test; later ones changed the lamp to include a diode and are wired differently.

This might have introduced changes like for the '72, that are not in the diagram for your model year, including the wiring of that triple connector, the warning light, and which fuse powers it. I'm not sure just when the change was made.

It may help to make a diagram of how your 3-connector is wired; it's hard to tell the exact pinout and wire color from the photo. We can then check if it's wired right (I wonder if it was changed since someone added a zip tie there?), and then know which should have power and when.


Last edited by KTPhil on Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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oxsign
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Hello new Square!!!! Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Ok, so definitely a '71, not an early one. Just curious, does yours have a bunch of extra wires for the diagnostic connector in the engine bay? That can complicate things. Another midyear change was to the brake check light wiring. Earlier made you press the dash button to test. I think later ones changes the lamp to include a diode and may be wired differently. This might have introduced changes not in the diagram, including the wiring of that triple connector.

It may help to make a diagram of how your 3-connector is wired; it's hard to tell the exact pinout and wire color from the photo. We can then check if it's wired right (I wonder if it was changed since someone added a zip tie there?), and then know which should have power and when.
I’ll try that out. I’m also going through the grounds to see if there’s a bad one somewhere. I put that zip tie there myself actually. Don’t remember why, I think it’s when I was cleaning and trying to keep it all together out of the way. Lol.
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