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PEPPE
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Joined: August 24, 2003
Posts: 1068
Location: Roma Italy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:37 am    Post subject: Judson vanes Reply with quote

i've got a problem purchasing some replacement judson vanes. i helped another vw enthusiast purchasing 2 different sets from international restorers. it was only a favor, because he was not familiar with internet purchasing.
The first set was received from the buyer but he did not like them. He told me that the material is incorrect, that the fiber inside the material causes excessive wear to rotor and housing. He told me that the correct material should be darker and without fiber. i don't know what is good, i received the in the past and and used without problem.

Then i scored another ad here on this site that showed a photo where effectively there was a very dark material like the one the vw enthusiast spoke about.

So i ordered them from him and gave them to the italian "friend". But the vanes are exactly like the others. All the sellers guaranteed that it is the finest material now available, but is it right that the original material was very dark and with different composition than the ones available today? he asked also an opinion of a famous italian vw parts vendor and gave the same opinion. where is the truth? now he blames me about the parts not being good, i made the mistake of anticipating the money for the purchase, never anymore a thing like this. who has at the moment the material 100% similar to the original ones?
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thomas.
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Joined: July 31, 2010
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Location: South West (Pa.)
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Re: Judson vanes Reply with quote

Did the guy that you did the favor for show you the "excessive wear". The housing of the Judson is made of cast iron .The rotor I think is made of aluminum. What was the time frame from installation and excessive wear. Wondering why he would need to take it apart to even check. I've purchased new ones twice and the first set looked a dark color after running from carbon build up and mixing with the MM oil and fuel. Just like the original ones I changed.Was he using the correct oil and amount ? I still have the 1st set I changed . If you want I can take a few photos. The second set I put in the Judson before I sold .

Last edited by thomas. on Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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PEPPE
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Joined: August 24, 2003
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Location: Roma Italy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Judson vanes Reply with quote

it is not real experience. the guy is speaking from pure teory and opinions from other people, but i like to dig the question and understand more about it
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PEPPE
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Joined: August 24, 2003
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Location: Roma Italy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Judson vanes Reply with quote

he don't even installed the vanes, and told me that the new vanes were thrown away (!)
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John Moxon Premium Member
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13943
Location: Southampton U.K.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Re: Judson vanes Reply with quote

PEPPE wrote:
he don't even installed the vanes, and told me that the new vanes were thrown away (!)


The man is a fool Peppe...you know that and there is very little you can say to a fool who thinks he knows better than George Folchi and Ricardo Deisernia. If you buy from Alejandro Martin you will get exactly the same material.

They all sell vanes made from Phenolic Linen, same as original Judson vanes. There are modern materials that can be used but they don't. The reason is the modern materials are made in thinner sheets and won't match the width of the rotor slots of the Judson. If you have 2 types of vanes of different thickness you have to have two types of rotors with different width slots.

That's why the Judson restorers all use the original materials of the same thickness. The colour is just colour...nothing more.

This is a Judson rotor and phenoloc linen vane. Piture by Alejandro Martin...
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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BFB
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Joined: November 03, 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Judson vanes Reply with quote

any idea what the modern materials might be? I've considered trying to build a version of the Judson, there were others ( maybe not for vw) , and it's just a giant air tool motor that's belt driven to pump air instead of air driven like an air tool.
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