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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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The valves and springs inside the case DO NOT have any effect on the oil pressure going thru a FF oil filter when it comes directly off the oil pump. They only control what goes past them inside the engine.
For all the Berg haters here is the JayCee pressure relief. https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=460522
You can check out the JayCee website. http://www.jayceevw.com/
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Last edited by vwracerdave on Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:36 am; edited 2 times in total |
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veedubcrazy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 2130
Location: La Porte, Tx.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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If it blew out the rubber gasket between the filter and mount, then its not making a good seal. Replace the mount and make sure its flat. Had the same thing happen, rev it up and it would shoot oil from between the two.
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1967 Deluxe Sedan |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| slalombuggy wrote: |
| Change your springs and you'll be fine |
Gene Berg sells the stock spring kit. I'm going to pick that up along with the Pressure relief plate that racerdave showed. I think that is AMAZING for anyone with the full flow, and should be a 1000% requirement! |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| esde wrote: |
| slalombuggy wrote: |
| Change your springs and you'll be fine |
I'll play the devils advocate and say just change the relief (flywheel end) spring. The rear spring only serves to control the pressure at which the oil bypasses the cooler, and has no effect on the relief. On a few engines I've actually had to install the stiffer rear spring to solve an overheat issue, but the for the forward relief spring I always use the factory part. |
Sounds good. I can remove the 'rear' relief spring, as that isn't covered by my deep sump!  The back one requires me to remove the deep sump. So I'll just start with that one |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| drumbum68 wrote: |
| kevlarian wrote: |
So, I have a full flow. It's been fine for 8811 miles. Until today!
Last night I drove her home, without issue.
10 PSI @ 1000 RPM idle
35 PSI @ 3100 RPM running 65 MPH
I went to drive to work today. Everything was fine until I got to the end of the block. Then my oil pressure light went on and my pressure gauge dropped to 0.
Turned her around and basically idled her back home. My full flow filter appeared to have catastrophic failure. I pulled off the K&N filter (with about 500 Miles on it) and the gasket was separated from the filter. Oil was coming out between the filter and the filter mount.
So I replaced the filter, and topped off the oil. Started it back up. Ran fine. Let it idle for about 30 seconds. Then gave it some gas. Let it idle @ 2000 RPM, and then "POP"! Same exact failure on a brand new filter.
MY GUESS is that it is excessive oil pressure, but I can't figure out where or why. Help!?
Thanks! |
What type filter mount? Some were machined wrong. Threaded portion not square to gasket surface. |
I don't know! It's the same one that's been on the car since the rebuild. 8800+ Miles ago! |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| veedubcrazy wrote: |
| If it blew out the rubber gasket between the filter and mount, then its not making a good seal. Replace the mount and make sure its flat. Had the same thing happen, rev it up and it would shoot oil from between the two. |
I would agree, but after 8800+ miles, and this is the first time? I find it difficult to believe that all of a sudden... |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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I'm digging the Berg, but the Berg just has a single outlet, how does this three outlet version work? |
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Cusser
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006
Posts: 31352
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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See this thread, was a stuck plunger https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=8603682
[quote="Cusser"]
| Cusser wrote: |
| Maybe your oil relief pistons are stuck. You can check those from underneath the engine, need a giant slotted screwdriver and wrench/Vise-Grip on those to loosen the plugs. Might need a tap to pull the pistons out if stuck. Front and rear have different length springs, 1600cc engines from 1970 on should have two of these. |
| advinnie wrote: |
| Right I’ve just removed both the pistons the one at the rear of the engine ( pulley end) came out nice and easy but the front one ( flywheel end) was stuck up the top of the cylinder and took a lot of effort and time trying to get it out 😡 anyway had a look up inside and all looks good. The rear piston slides nicely up and down but the front one by the flywheel goes up so far and gets stuck so am about to rub it down a little and see if that helps |
| advinnie wrote: |
| Sorry for the delay ... Anyway both pistons now more freely and oil pressure is now back to normal. |
Winner, winner: chicken dinner !!!
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15297
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| I'm digging the Berg, but the Berg just has a single outlet, how does this three outlet version work? |
The Berg item is a oil pump cover. The JayCee item is an oil filter mounting bracket with the oil filter on the bottom. The 3rd line is the relief line for excessive oil pressure to return to the case.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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veedubcrazy
Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005
Posts: 2130
Location: La Porte, Tx.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| kevlarian wrote: |
| veedubcrazy wrote: |
| If it blew out the rubber gasket between the filter and mount, then its not making a good seal. Replace the mount and make sure its flat. Had the same thing happen, rev it up and it would shoot oil from between the two. |
I would agree, but after 8800+ miles, and this is the first time? I find it difficult to believe that all of a sudden... |
True, dependent on how hand tight the filter is. Additionally, check to see if the threaded part from the mount is screwed in straight. That will cause a faulty seating of gasket/filter.
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jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3445
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| The Berg cover returns the oil to the pump gears. I was going to use one but figured it was easier to change viscosity. I didnt want another bypass plunger. I heard they stick, make sure your oil is really clean. |
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mikedjames
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2012
Posts: 2733
Location: Hamble, Hampshire, UK
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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I gave up on FRAM HP-1 when I read "made in Europe" on it which explained why it was expensive having crossed the Atlamtic twice.
I switched to the Mann W719/5 which is an old VW Golf/Rabbit filter .
My peak reading oil pressure gauge maxes out at 104 psi.. which I see on normal starts at 28 degrres after the filter and cooler. 26 mm CB maxi 3 pump (20w/50 oil)
Popped a hose off the cooler once when the clips were a bit loose.
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Ancient vehicles and vessels
1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.
1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| slalombuggy wrote: |
Back to the original problem......
The EMPI springs are far too stiff. I was also a victim of them. If you go back to stock springs you'll be fine to run whatever oil you want. I ran 20w50 for decades, friends of mine still run it in everything from their Westy campers to their drag race engines. As far as filters, the lower the micron filtering the higher the restriction.
brad |
crap!!! almost 85000 miles on mine with the empi springys and now I hear this!!!! ow well I only have a 30 mm pump.that must be saving it. |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| kevlarian wrote: |
| I'm digging the Berg, but the Berg just has a single outlet, how does this three outlet version work? |
The Berg item is a oil pump cover. The JayCee item is an oil filter mounting bracket with the oil filter on the bottom. The 3rd line is the relief line for excessive oil pressure to return to the case. |
So that would be easier to fit!!! As far as I can see the Tin under the pulley is in the way of removing the plate from the oil pump. Or is it possible to remove it without dropping the engine and pulling the pulley? |
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jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3445
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| Depends on oil pump and stud length. You may have enough space to remove it. Wont know without looking. |
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kevlarian
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2014
Posts: 636
Location: Orange County, CA
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4278
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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That does not seem as elegant a solution as the Berg, and a lot more places for potential leaks. Why?
although you can cack the berg ones if you overtighten...please don't ask... |
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jason
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2002
Posts: 3445
Location: Garage
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| The three mentioned basically do the same thing. Berg is all in one, no extra hoses or hard lines. And oil stays in pump rather than back to sump. Also cheaper. Other two route extra oil back to sump. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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[quote="vwracerdave"]The valves and springs inside the case DO NOT have any effect on the oil pressure going thru a FF oil filter when it comes directly off the oil pump. They only control what goes past them inside the engine.
Thats sounds good dave but it's incorrect.  if you have no restriction after the oil pump it just flows through it and make just enough pressure to do so. there is avaliable pressure there is you add some sort of restriction. |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Excessive Oil Pressure! Catastrophic Failure! |
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| the berg system with it spiting sme poil back to the sucken side of the gears can elevate some or all cavatation. the Jcee would be nice for valve spring oilers. if I had a deep sump I sure would not spit the ol back into the case, I would rather go to the sump/valve springs or through another cooler then to the sump/valve springs |
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