general consensus on total seal rings

[Danwvw]

I always wanted to try the total seal rings for the VW. I would read hot vw magazine and they were used on almost every build. Now you hardly see them on the build sheets. But yeah, the bragging rights alone ought to make them worth it. But yeah, the single port with the single port manifold is limited to running the Single Port engine carbs like the PICT 28, 30, 31 and you can run a 32 on it if you can find one. The single port manifold is about 32mm and that is it. But with a mild cam and good 1 3/8" headers they perform nicely with more carburetion. Consider 88mm bore 74mm stroke if your still have it apart.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[fivelugshortaxle]

Well...either way. I bout new AA 94's for the 2332....a new set of Grant rings...and total seal gapless 2nd ring. I'll be using the gapless and the Grants on top and bottom.
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2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc

[modok]

If it worked then it can work now, but the people that made it work then are retired or dead, so they may have taken the secrets with them.

If I wanted to make the rings work better at high rpms I'd use thin top ring and gas ports. Works together. The gas ports quickly load the top ring when it need to be loaded AND lets them unload when they don't need to be dragging. It's still vintage tech, just slightly newer vintage.

[SamT]

As you can see there is no consensus. Total seal rings are never a must, but may or may not have some disadvantages in certain builds.
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=546712

[UK Luke 72]

I don't see what the bring to the party, it's such a weak ring that I don't see how it can actually reduce blowby.

Is there any evidence that they're doing what they should?

Yeah a <1mm top ring and gas ports... Hmm.

They say 40% of an engines friction is through the rings.
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[Stripped66]

[vwracerdave]

The secret I've always heard is the cylinders have to be honed with a specific grit stone to make the Total Seal rings work correctly.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
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1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Stripped66]

[bikesndbugs]

I'm not going stock single port intake. Most likely the end castings allowing you to make it into the 3 peice type. I went single port because in had brand new single port heads in the garage and the dual ports I had are beat up. If the single ports really end up causing issue ill swap them over. I've seen single ports bored quite a bit and that works so I doubt a 1600 with some cam will be that much of an issue. If it is then ill deal with it later. The motor is being built fast as I'm tired of driving my truck around.

[Floating VW]

I went with the Total Seal gapless second ring on my latest build, and it's true, oil control isn't stellar. But it's not atrocious, either. I think I usually burn a little over a pint between oil changes- not enough to make the plugs show any hint of carbon build-up. I noticed that the Total Seal rings had a lot less tension than the other rings when I installed them, so the trade-off seems to be reduced friction (which is good) for poorer oil control (which is not so good). It's a fair trade, in my opinion.

Yes, I would have preferred the gapless top ring instead, but since I went with an 83mm piston and, at least at that time, Total Seal didn't make an 83mm gapless top ring, it was gapless second or nothing. (No machining was required, nor did I use anything special to hone the cylinders- just a clean-up of the factory hone). I did use the special Total Seal quick-seat powder, as per instructions, so maybe that makes a difference. I also knew that the engine would never see more than 5000 RPM, so I wasn't overly concerned about possible ring flutter.

As far as making the engine perform better, without doing a back-to-back analysis, I couldn't really say for sure. The engine does perform above and beyond what it was designed to do, though how much of that is due to the rings, your guess is as good as mine. Would I use Total Seal rings again? Absolutely, and here's why: Not only are they well made and not absurdly expensive, but when I grab the fan belt and turn the engine over by hand, and the compression builds up to the point where I almost can't turn it anymore, at that point, if I let go of the belt, the engine springs backwards! I've never seen an engine with regular rings do that.

So I agree with Mark on this one, I say give 'em a shot.
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[bikesndbugs]

i ordered some single high rev springs, chromoly retainers, heavy duty retainer clip things and solid rocker shafts.

amazon sent me duals instead of singles. can i run just one of the springs and be fine? should i just run the duals. really dont want to return them because of a pretty tight deadline

[FreeBug]

Total Seal gaplesss, right? 1 hit, 1 miss: I bought a set through Berg, and got their cylinder prep with the P/Cs, it worked out well. Later, I tried another set, with just usual cylinder prep (no re-hone), and had oil control issues, not too bad, but would see smoke in the mirrors at night when I was at WOT.

The cranking over by hand is almost impossible, and I think they would be MOST useful in low-RPM engines, where gasses would have time to escape.

I still have a set in 90.5, would probably try and use them someday, with a lot of cylinder prep, now that I know better...

I think it's just not a plug-and-play item, not for everyone. In my earlier (more ignorant) days, I would have been better off with "normal" rings.