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2.0 ABA Swap
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: 2.0 ABA Swap Reply with quote

Some of you may remember my recent 2.2 Subaru thread. Well, I've continued to keep my eyes open, and do my research, and I am now leaning towards a 2.0 ABA swap at 50 degrees. I didn't realize there was so much information on this swap here on the Samba, and elsewhere. So I've been reading a lot.

And after an extensive conversation with the VOG group on Facebook, and Chris DeLong in particular, this is where I've landed...

The engine: 1995 2.0l ABA - OBD1
FI: Motronics
Adapters etc:
KEP adapter plate and flex plate
Stock diesel or other mounting brackets
Exhaust - not sure yet

I'm going to look at the donor tomorrow. Donor car comes with two motors. The 1.8l from 1991 and the 2.0l from 1995 as well as the entire digifant 2 system from the stock 1.8l motor.

Open to any advise or opinions here.

Power: I know my power increase is not going to be massive, but it will be something.
Fuel efficiency: I'd love to numbers around 25. That would be cool.
Reliability: It sounds like this motor with the forged internals is one of the more bullet proof VW motors. Open to debate.

Based on my research and math, I will be able to do this swap for about half the cost, and half the effort of an EJ22.

I know this is crazy, but I'm building a glossary in my own thread. Partially for my own sake, and for those who follow...

Page 1: Intro / Plans / Wiring
Page 2: Parts list / Throttle cable / Wiring / Mounting / Carriers, etc.
Page 3: PS Pump / Water Pump / Carrier Bars / Wiring / Seals / parts ordering
Page 4: Carrier bars / mounting brackets / oil pump / Timing / PS Pump, AC Comp, Alt locations
Page 5: Oil Pump / Head Decision (1.8 vs. 2.0)
Page 6: Intake Manifolds / Coolant hoses
Page 7: Head and intake / Wiring (important)
Page 8: Digifant 1 Wiring / Exhaust Header
Page 9: Exhaust manifold / Digifant Wiring Talk / Motor Mounts
Page 10: Motor mounts / Engine parts order / TDC Issue / Intake talk / Start of transmission tangent
Page 11: Exhaust and header talk / Water pump talk / Case breather talk / TDC issue
Page 12: Timing - TDC issue / Coolant hose thread / Transmission tangent
Page 13: Transmission shift tangent / Head bolt Q / Adapter plate decision
Page 14: Motronic Wiring Tangent / Oil fill level tangent / Pulled Head / Crank sprocket pulled / Crank pulley issue
Page 15: Timing - weird crank pulley issue / Bottom end rebuild plans / External gauge - OBDII tangent
Page 16: Honing talk / Bearing and bolt talk / Crank pulley talk
Page 17: Crank pulley wrap up / Bottom end rebuild - disassembly / crank & pistons / adapter plate
Page 18: Bottom end rebuild - disassembly / Rod bolts
Page 19: Piston ring grooves / Cylinder Hone
Page 20: Bottom end reassembly
Page 21: Oil pump priming chat / Bottom end reassembly
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

You're selecting a great low cost engine swap option--the base gas engine VW should've used to begin with. The wiring is super easy. Just keep in mind that you'll probably need to clearance the sheetmetal over on the driver side of the engine bay to allow the 1.8 intake manifold to fit. Assuming you acquire the most common 50 degree kit which is the '82 diesel setup, you'll need to modify your trans mount bracket and flip the mount to move the whole drivetrain forward. I think this entails shortening the shift rod, as well.

Good luck and take lots of pics.
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Paulbeard
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

h00drat wrote:


Fuel efficiency: I'd love to numbers around 25. That would be cool.
Reliability: It sounds like this motor with the forged internals is one of the more bullet proof VW motors. Open to debate.


22 is more realistic, I think. But that's still better than 16-18. Especially with more power. And the reliability/parts availability is a win.
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Quote:
Git 'r DONE!
dhaavers
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Thanks! Looking forward to it. Lots to learn still.
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Paulbeard wrote:
h00drat wrote:


Fuel efficiency: I'd love to numbers around 25. That would be cool.
Reliability: It sounds like this motor with the forged internals is one of the more bullet proof VW motors. Open to debate.


22 is more realistic, I think. But that's still better than 16-18. Especially with more power. And the reliability/parts availability is a win.


I'm in a tin-top turned CHC, so not pushing around the weight of a westy. I should have mentioned that.

At any rate, yes I will gladly take 22 over the 15 - 17 I'm getting these days.
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
..... Assuming you acquire the most common 50 degree kit which is the '82 diesel setup, you'll need to modify your trans mount bracket and flip the mount to move the whole drivetrain forward. I think this entails shortening the shift rod, as well.

Good luck and take lots of pics.


As a possible alternative to cutting/welding the shift rod, I think it was Andrew Libby who speculated that not cutting the linkage but rather moving the shift rod further rearward through the shift cup end then resetting the roll pin, might work. Not sure though as isn't there a bit of an angle involved at the end section of the rod? I cut and welded the shift rod when I flipped the mount on my '81.

I'm currently making mount brackets for my '82 diesel bars. From what I'm experiencing, I'd suggest its less work to flip the mount and run the diesel Vanagon rubber mounts. Even then, modifying the OEM bracket to accept a Saab hydraulic mount or whatever doesn't look like much work.

On the '82 diesel carrier bar, if the stock mount brackets are left in the OEM position, does this allow room for the Mk3 PS pump?

Its interesting to see how similar the 1.8 Digifant and ABA Motronic fuel injectors are. Looks like the same male electrical socket is used on each.

The best I've seen (that I"ve noticed) on my ABA with WBX 4 speed and stock diameter tires is 22 MPG (US gallons).

Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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ELO78
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Popcorn
Excellent!
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Does anyone know whether it's possible to run Digifant II on an ABA long block; i.e. with the crossflow head. I can't think of any reasons why not, but the I'm probably missing something glaringly obvious. Seems like that might be a viable option in this case, since it would probably be much easier to wire up.
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

you can but you have to work around the Distributer iirc.

and the fact it's a tad backwards..
the ABA isn't a hard system to wire up.. the OBD-I/II don't really complicate things as you can exclude them as the Digifant II would be w/o anyways..
but the OBD-II plug is just 3 wires.. K-signal, +12v IGN and GND..

as for a CEL/MIL code.. it won't effect the way the ECU operates so again just ignore it. you don't need SAI or the Immobilizer stuff. get an ABA system w/o a chipped key..
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Does anyone know whether it's possible to run Digifant II on an ABA long block; i.e. with the crossflow head. I can't think of any reasons why not, but the I'm probably missing something glaringly obvious. Seems like that might be a viable option in this case, since it would probably be much easier to wire up.


[edit for Motronic OBD1] To my eye, I think the ABA injectors, rail, knock sensor could be used with Digifant. (knock sensor might be the same for both?) Just rig up the Digifant AFM. Have no idea on PCV and idle valve though but I bet that could be reconfigured. The distributor is different but there are adaptors. e.g. look at Tectonics Tuning. The coolant manifold at head could be set up to use separate cooling temp sensors (ECU, gauge) or just use the 4 pin Motronic sensor.

This might be of some use:

http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/management/digifant2.html

I see idle and WOT switches though. And, an AC input. What about the Vanagon PS load?

Neil.
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

danfromsyr wrote:

the ABA isn't a hard system to wire up.. the OBD-I/II don't really complicate things as you can exclude them as the Digifant II would be w/o anyways..


I agree. Having done an OBD1 Motronic harness, and looking at the wiring pin out charts, the wiring differences between Digifant II and Motronic OBD1 are not huge. The OP will be repairing the harness regardless of choice and of course, proofing his work with a meter. And doesn't Motronic use sequential injection? Might be a slight advantage in fuel efficiency. Maybe.

I see a "Malfunction Light/Switch" under Digifant II and the G60
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1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Zeitgeist 13 wrote:
Does anyone know whether it's possible to run Digifant II on an ABA long block; i.e. with the crossflow head. I can't think of any reasons why not, but the I'm probably missing something glaringly obvious. Seems like that might be a viable option in this case, since it would probably be much easier to wire up.

Quote:
A cross-flow head is far more efficient in scavenging the spent exhaust gasses than a non-crossflow head. More of the air's momentum is better utilized in a crossflow head system than in one where the air must make a 180 degree turn to go back up the exhaust port and out.
I have full instructions on exactly what must be done to put an ENTIRE ABA motor into a car and retain the Digifant II injection. The guy I talked to says it's just as fast and powerful as a Motronic system and has better throttle response. He attributed that to the Motronic being an emissions-system, while the Digifant was mainly aimed at being.. well.. an ignition system.

* The coolant sensor from the digifant motor go on the side of the ABA head.
* The Auxiliary air valve from the A2 goes on the ABA.
* Use the Digifant fuel rail harness on the ABA motor. It will need to be extended a foot or so.
* Need an early (93-95, OBDI) upper intake manifold and Throttle Body. These have the required connections to fit the Aux air valve.
* Use the A2 Distributor in the ABA using TT's Distributor Shim Kit.
* Starting from the gas tank, take all slack out of the fuel lines as you work your way toward the engine. Most cars will have enough slack to stretch enough and reach the fuel rail. If not, just get some rubber fuel line and extend it. use the ABA Fuel rail.
* Make a bracket for the Idle and Full Throttle switches and mount them on the TB.
* Use the intake boot from an OBD1 ABA motor.
If you would like to retain A/C you have 2 options:
1) Take all the digifant pulleys and the A2 compressor and mount them on the ABA. You will need to build a custom bracket to mount the A2 compressor on the ABA.
2) [PREFERRED] Use the ABA serpentine belt system and compressor. Cut your existing A/C lines out of the A2 and take them to a truck store that can swage on fittings. Have them make you new AC lines of the right length. This is preferred because you do away with the crappy A2 squeaky, slipping belt system.

Performance:
* DO NOT use a 270 cam. It makes the engine run like crap on Digi. Use a 268 Cam instead.. or a 276 cam and use the VR6 Fuel Pressure Regulator.
* Use the AMS 2.0 Upgrade ECU, about $200.
* Open up the air flow meter and release the tension on the spring by 3 teeth. This will help richen the mixture.. and fix the leaning out that Digi is notorious for between 4k-5k.
* Get a TT Cam timing gear and set it for 2 of advance.
* Use 16v Spark Plugs (NGK 4563)
* Time the motor at 850 RPM, 8 BTDC. (I thought you timed at 2K on Digi.. but this is what he said.)
* If you're lucky enough to have a California car, with the ECU number ending in '023' then you have a socket and only need the $100 chip from AMS.

From here: http://www.vwforum.com/forums/f14/2-0-digifant-11121/
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Good info. Does the OBD-1 Motronic use those two black and white plugs for blink code reading? If so, I have an adapter for our OBD-1 Audi that allows VAG-Com software to read a limited set of data from those plugs--better than nothing, I guess.

If the OP did want to run Digi-II, couldn't he just use the 1.8L distributor? I do think Motronic will be a better system overall, but I'm always looking for work arounds to simplify a swap.
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Hey guys! I'm back.

I picked up the car and spare motor yesterday and I am currently in the "taking inventory" stage.

The 2.0 motor looks pretty clean. The 1.8 is still in the car and halfway removed.

Can you guys confirm the amount of engine lid bump I will end up with if I go with the 2.0 crossflow head instead of the 1.8? If it's not significant, I am leaning towards THIS option, but still the digifant 2 system from the 1.8 donor car.

I do have a lead on two 1.8 heads. One hydraulic, and one solid if I decide to go that route. The 1.8 in the donor car will likely need rebuilt.

A couple of pictures.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


A million more questions to come...but here are a few that I can think of for now...

1. Does anybody have a lead on a wiring diagram, or wiring pictures for the OBD1 system > Vanagon?

2. What about air filter / AFM setup? I've seen some where it looks like a cone filter in the engine bay, and others where it looks like they tapped into the stock vanagon plumming.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
Auto Trans Rebuild - Image Gallery


Last edited by h00drat on Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Zeitgeist 13
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

I highly recommend you familiarize yourself with this thread:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...;start=600

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


An ABA @50 degree and it all fits under the lid.
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

I saw that swap, where he lowered everything. I was a little concerned about ground clearance, but it looks like it might be OK. I'll read through that thread as I haven't seen the whole write up yet.
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<<Tyler>>
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danfromsyr
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:54 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

fairly easy to regain some ground clearance
springs, shims, tires,
pick any one or all 3 Wink

guess it really depends on how deep and rocky the ground is that you play in..
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Not a syncro driver, and don't spend a TON of time off road.

I already have slightly bigger tires (27") and a 1" lift via Westy springs...so I bet I would be OK.

The benefit of using the cross-flow head and NOT modifying the lid sound pretty good to me.
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1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

h00drat wrote:



Can you guys confirm the amount of engine lid bump I will end up with if I go with the 2.0 crossflow head instead of the 1.8? If it's not significant, I am leaning towards THIS option, but still the digifant 1 system from the 1.8 donor car.

1. Does anybody have a lead on a wiring diagram, or wiring pictures for the OBD1 system > Vanagon?

2. What about air filter / AFM setup? I've seen some where it looks like a cone filter in the engine bay, and others where it looks like they tapped into the stock vanagon plumming.


The A2 Resource web site I linked has a pin out table for Motronic OBD1 (ABA). Also, this is helpful:

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/techset/index.htm

from here

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/

The A3 Bentley is really useful though.

50 swaps using the stock air filter box in stock location usually have a custom made intake manifold. Typically, folks put an air cleaner in area in front of tail light on driver side. Generally, I'd strongly suggest a cone filter is a bad idea. Keep the Mk3 intake rubber bellows. You might find a way to make it work. If so, it would provide easier connections for the PCV pipes etc. There are silicone elbows and what-not available. As a temporary hack, if needed, an old oil filter body can make for a nice fit to ID of the Mk3 bellows. But thats a last resort and kludgy. Some folks adapt the AFM to the air cleaner. There is a mid 90's 4 cylinder Nissan air box that will accept the AFM fairly easily. If you alter the tail light a bit, that box fits and a hose can be routed to the intake snorkel.

I'd already removed the OEM mount brackets from my diesel Vanagon engine carrier bars so I have no actual point of reference for what the ABA position would've been using the stock diesel rubber mounts but.....

With my old WBX on the ground, measuring from crank to carrier bar (more or less bottom of engine) and doing same for ABA with diesel oil pan, the latter was a shorter distance. So, with a WBX transmission, if making custom mount brackets or altering the OEM brackets, even if you lowered the engine somewhat, you may keep the ground clearance relatively close to what the WBX or air cooled was.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy air cooled to 15 ABA swap: http://tinyurl.com/y9n4xob8

50 ABA Swap in to '88 Westy: http://tinyurl.com/yap5hpwt

Vanagon VAG GAS engine swap Google Group:
https://tinyurl.com/2f24rmh

VE7TBN
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h00drat
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap Planning Reply with quote

Helpful links! Thanks.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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