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Vanagon Nut
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Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:35 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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ya I had to think that one through. It's similar or the same as the 2.1 WBX in that regard; the hose off the WBX intake bellows goes to the ISV which meters air into the intake plenum. On the ABA, the other challenge is oil that eventually gathers or comes out of the PCV system. Less of an issue on a rebuilt engine I'd think but something to be aware of IMO.
Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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Location: Hood River
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 11:36 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
ya I had to think that one through. It's similar or the same as the 2.1 WBX in that regard; the hose off the WBX intake bellows goes to the ISV which meters air into the intake plenum. On the ABA, the other challenge is oil that eventually gathers or comes out of the PCV system. Less of an issue on a rebuilt engine I'd think but something to be aware of IMO.
Neil. |
Yeah, totally. I'll see if I can find a small filter to throw on the ISV hose...and keep an eye on the PSV hose for oil.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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h00drat
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Got a lot done on the wiring last night...but have to changes gears for a second...
I am pretty frustrated. There is a "small" oil leak somewhere on the backside (pulley side) of the engine. I am finding the oil on the power steering adjuster plate, and obviously on the ground below it, but I CAN NOT find where it is coming from.
ALL seals on the motor are brand new.
It's noteworthy that the engine has not run since the rebuild, so it has to be coming from something is currently submerged in oil. With 4.5 qts of oil in it...would the crank seal be under oil?
As far as I can see, it's not coming from the oil pan seal...but I can't really see any other other seals (like the crank seal) to determine where it is coming from.
Rant over.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2018 10:25 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Thats a drag. The "good news" is that its from the pulley end of engine. It isn't a huge job to replace a crank cam or IM shaft seal and those parts are cheap.
You're certain its engine oil and not PS fluid?
I doubt the leak is at the valve cover but since I have that on my mind.....
I'm hanging my ignorance "out to dry" here but I recently found out that the engine pulley end of each metal strip on each side of the valve cover needs to be oriented properly so they fit to the groove at each bottom end of the plastic cam "OT" thing. But then I'd been running my daily driver ABA Vanagon with those strips installed incorrectly. No oil leak at valve cover as a result but an ear on that cam "OT" part was broken.... 
Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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h00drat
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:05 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Wow. I THINK the wiring is done. I still need to do some zip tie craziness and clean up, but everything is hooked up.
I nervously connected the battery last night and nothing melted. YAY
Then I nervously turned the ignition to "on"... Again, nothing melted, relays clicked, and fuel pump primed. YAY
I am still working on getting some flex tube on the exhaust system, so first start might be tomorrow.
In the mean time...there is this ONE wire that I am still confused about.
My Motronic wiring harness from Dave has ign/on power coming from the 15 circuit, black wire. However on the 7 connector there is this red/black wire coming FROM the starter (spade connector) that is going unused. This would be a "start" signal to the ECU via circuit 50.
Looking at the Motronic wiring diagram I am not seeing a "start" or "crank" signal anywhere, so maybe this is intentional and all good...
Anybody have insight? David knows his stuff...so I trust him...it just feels weird not using this wire.
Picture of the wire in question...
This is where it use to go...into the relay box IIRC.
This is the motronic diagram I am looking at. Again, not seeing any CRANK or START signal to ECU...
http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/techset/95aba.jpg
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:44 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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That WBX black/red wire at 7a connector is not required for the ABA Motronic swap. Just cap it off with electrical tape. When key is turned to activate the starter, (50 position), positive will be at that wire.
FWIW, find ignition switch at upper RH in LH page of the .edu diagram, follow the black wire down. At the junction, it splits off to ECU 38. AFAIK, that wire is what actually turns on the ECU. (or at least part of the ECU). Once the engine us running, the ECU will have caused the 3 relays to close (O2 relay may not close all the time) Since the fuel pump primes, (FP relay closes briefly) I assume that the wire to ECU 38 is properly connected in the harness. But if you were curious.....
disconnect the battery, disconnect the ECU, re connect battery, turn key to 15 position. With volt meter at ground (frame) and ECU 38, you should see battery voltage. This test should be shown in the Bentley test tables.
The fuel pump prime sound is a good thing. If you felt adventurous, you could connect the MIL wire to a light bulb and see if it goes out after engine starts. I can't say for sure if battery voltage is present at that wire but I have used a 12 Volt LED light as the MIL light bulb in the past w/o any apparent issue.
Did the harness c/w a tach wire connection?
Neil.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:04 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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You're welcome Tyler.
Be absolutely certain you have the tach wire connected to the correct stud at coil!
One stud is 15 positive, other is 1 (correct). You want to connect tach wire to 1
I just installed a tach wire to my "green" Telefunken coil. On that brand of coil, above the stud cover, there should be numbers showing which one is 15 and 1.
When you're bone yard hunting for spare parts, if you find a green Telefunken coil, buy it. IMO, they're better quality than the aftermarket stuff.
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 11:12 am Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
You're welcome Tyler.
Be absolutely certain you have the tach wire connected to the correct stud at coil!
One stud is 15 positive, other is 1 (correct). You want to connect tach wire to 1
I just installed a tach wire to my "green" Telefunken coil. On that brand of coil, above the stud cover, there should be numbers showing which one is 15 and 1.
When you're bone yard hunting for spare parts, if you find a green Telefunken coil, buy it. IMO, they're better quality than the aftermarket stuff. |
I actually have two coils. Not sure of brand on either one.
Anyway, I'll look for that 1 and 15.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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h00drat
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Well, I'd bet Dave knows FAR more about this stuff than I, but my gut tells me that connecting positive to the pulsed connection at tach might damage the tach. And, inside the instrument cluster wiring, that 1 also connects to the oil pressure "L" board. But again, this is just my gut talking.
The Telefunken coil has a green label. The stud labeling is on the case, not the stud cover.
Neil.
internet image of coil I refer to. You can barely see the "'15"
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1988 West DIY 50º ABA
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h00drat
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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That's the same coil I have! So I guess I have the wire on the wrong post...
Based on your image, it looks like there is a plastic cover that my coil is missing that would have had the mark on it. Hopefully that's not an issue?
Also, you had asked about TDC...this is what I'm seeing on the flex plate through the peep hole. There isn't a line on the adapter plate, so I guess I'm not sure if this is good or not...
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Ah! Good! Yes. Those are the timing marks I'd referred to. As mentioned, in future, I'll be using flywheel marks as de facto. re: "There isn't a line on the adapter plate," Not sure what you mean by "line" but the labeling for each timing punch mark is obvious.
If my bold text re: coil wiring appeared to be internet "yelling", certainly didn't mean it that way. 
Ok. So I see what you mean. The "cover" I referred to was the smaller hinged cover.
I can't speak to corrosion or whatever being hastened by that missing plastic part but it sure provides room for the tach wire. I had to futz around with my coil till I found a suitable way to route that wire. The way your coil is now, i guess there's a tiny risk of something grounding out to the 15 stud but thats a remote possibility. And this is a bit "over kill" but with exposed connections like that, I either use the double wall shrink type connector OR add a layer of double wall shrink tube over that type of connector. Water etc. creeps. A piece of double wall shrink tube might fit over that ring. And if its 4:1 shrink ratio, it should shrink closed to that wire. Even a 2:1 piece might do same.
Looking at your image, yes. That wire is on the wrong stud.
Neil.
my added tach wire.
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h00drat
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Ah! Good! Yes. Those are the timing marks I'd referred to. As mentioned, in future, I'll be using flywheel marks as de facto. re: "There isn't a line on the adapter plate," Not sure what you mean by "line" but the labeling for each timing punch mark is obvious.
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Yeh, the punch marks on the flex plate are obvious. What I meant is that there isn't a line on the adapter plate to tell me if they are DEAD on. I can obviously see them through the hole, so that's good. ha!
Edit: I should point out that the stamps actually are pretty much centered in the adapter plate hole. The angle I had to take to get the photo makes them look slightly off center.
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Ok. So I see what you mean. The "cover" I referred to was the smaller hinged cover.
I can't speak to corrosion or whatever being hastened by that missing plastic part but it sure provides room for the tach wire. I had to futz around with my coil till I found a suitable way to route that wire. The way your coil is now, i guess there's a tiny risk of something grounding out to the 15 stud but thats a remote possibility. And this is a bit "over kill" but with exposed connections like that, I either use the double wall shrink type connector OR add a layer of double wall shrink tube over that type of connector. Water etc. creeps. A piece of double wall shrink tube might fit over that ring. And if its 4:1 shrink ratio, it should shrink closed to that wire. Even a 2:1 piece might do same.
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I'll move the wire to the other stud and add some heat shrink tube for safe keeping. The coil is in a pretty safe spot in the bay, so I wouldn't expect to have any issues...but you never know.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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Vanagon Nut
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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Based upon a comment here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699086&highlight=kep
if the TDC mark is OC of that hole or close to it, I'm sure things will be fine. It looks like the other mark is for 3º.
edit: the Motronic ECU controls the actual timing of spark advance, retard, etc. ; AFAIK, it has a little "wiggle" room in that regard. e.g. if the cam was off by 1/2 a tooth, from an electrical perspective, the ECU could compensate for that. .
With electricity, I tend to worry too much. But to me its either wrong or right so why not get it right the first time? (says he who has made his fair share of wiring harness errors. )
Neil.
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h00drat
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Based upon a comment here:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699086&highlight=kep
if the TDC mark is OC of that hole or close to it, I'm sure things will be fine. It looks like the other mark is for 3º.
edit: the Motronic ECU controls the actual timing of spark advance, retard, etc. ; AFAIK, it has a little "wiggle" room in that regard. e.g. if the cam was off by 1/2 a tooth, from an electrical perspective, the ECU could compensate for that. .
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All good news. Thanks for helping me track this down. Makes me feel comfortable knowing the crank isn't 180 degrees out...or something
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
With electricity, I tend to worry too much. But to me its either wrong or right so why not get it right the first time? (says he who has made his fair share of wiring harness errors. )
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Totally. I feel the same way. I'm assuming this was in regards to the "just try a post and either be right or wrong" comment. Glad it was so easy to find out which post was 1 and which 15. I guess I assumed since Dave didn't know which was which, it wouldn't be that easy to find. Bad assumption I guess !
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
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h00drat
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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First attempt...no start.
Still clicking at relays, and fuel pump priming, but not fire.
Edit: Going to grab the test light and start checking things out tonight. Will confirm spark from coil to dizzy, and from dizzy to plugs.
Any opinions from first hand experience, or recommendations for testing let me know.
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<<Tyler>>
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Turbod16v
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: 2.0 ABA Swap |
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do you have the obd port hooked up? if so you could throw scanner on to see if your getting a pulse from crank sensor. or any codes yet.
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