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williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
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 Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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just because it's "new" doesn't mean it's good- If good spark (1/4" or better ) from the coil- your back to the rotor.--
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:42 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| williamM wrote: |
| just because it's "new" doesn't mean it's good- If good spark (1/4" or better ) from the coil- your back to the rotor.-- |
And I can understand that, but chances are pretty high that it's not the rotor, I am seeing the same exact behavior with 2 different cap and rotor sets.
The rotor turns when the engine cranks...
I have replaced the cap and rotor, no change in behavior, it HAS to be the coil or the distributor itself. Only problem is, I have a CA emission bus, my coil is is different than a Federal emission. They can get me one in Paducah tomorrow, at Advanced Auto, but there is no guarantee that will fix it, so I am looking at options for renting a Uhaul truck and dolly to drive it up to Chicago where I live.
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1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Use an old spark plug plugged into the end of each wire in turn to see if you are getting spark. You can open the gap real wide if you want to give it a real test. The treads of the plug need to be touching a good ground. |
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Use an old spark plug plugged into the end of each wire in turn to see if you are getting spark. You can open the gap real wide if you want to give it a real test. The treads of the plug need to be touching a good ground. |
Definitely not getting spark..
I am still looking for specs, but I think my coil is shot.
Getting 1.1 ohm on the primary
3000 on the secondary
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1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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Does this mean my coil is good?
https://youtu.be/4brvQqxQjRc
If so, then it looks like I've narrowed it down to the distributor..
Can I just get a classic style distributor and coil from the FLAPS I am at?
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1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:42 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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The spark has to be going to ground somewhere, it can not just disappear. The cap and rotor are supposed to act as insulators to keep the spark from grounding out to either the distributor shaft or the distributor body, so since you changed out these parts the problem should have been fixed if it was in the distributor to start with. How much up and down movement does the shaft have? How much side to side?
How about removing the cap and dust shield from your distributor and taking some pictures for us. |
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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This is a picture of the original rotor, I swapped it out just to see if it would work with the new cap, no change.. There is no side play in the shaft, but I can move it up and down about 5 mm.. the distributor is only about 18 months old
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1979 Deluxe Westy in Mexico Beige |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:05 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| That looks like a rotor for a Digifant distributor, don't know if it would cause a problem with an L-jet distributor or not. |
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| That looks like a rotor for a Digifant distributor, don't know if it would cause a problem with an L-jet distributor or not. |
You have to understand that this is the rotor that came with my bus when I bought it 3 years ago and I have put 40000 miles on it. It's a CA emissions vehicle, and not a lot of people can look at these parts and recognize them.
I really want to convert this over to Fed emissions soon, finding these parts is a PIA
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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My 1981 Vanagon air cooled engine had a distributor that looked just like that. I had a no start situation like you and discovered that the three wire plug to the distributor body had bad connectors inside.
I discovered this by accident, and when I wiggled the plug I would get an intermittent start/run condition. Not saying this is your problem and I'm not even sure if it's actually related to your problem, but it couldn't hurt to try and wiggle that plug around or at least check the connectors while you crank it.
I wound up stripping back the insulation and soldering new wires in the plug. |
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gintaras
Samba Member
Joined: November 19, 2012
Posts: 523
Location: Louisville
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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Thanks everyone. I rented a uhaul and am towing her back home for now.
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SGKent 
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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If I had spark at one end of a wire, and not at the other end I would certainly replace that wire to make sure it wasn't broken inside or arcing to ground somewhere along its length. If I didn't think that could be the problem, I could pull a plug wire off, stick a spark plug in one end and the other in the coil. That would tell me if I was getting spark at the coil. If I wanted to, I could even remove the wire from #1 terminal on the coil and momentarily ground and release #1 to see if I then got spark.
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| gintaras wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| That looks like a rotor for a Digifant distributor, don't know if it would cause a problem with an L-jet distributor or not. |
You have to understand that this is the rotor that came with my bus when I bought it 3 years ago and I have put 40000 miles on it. It's a CA emissions vehicle, and not a lot of people can look at these parts and recognize them.
I really want to convert this over to Fed emissions soon, finding these parts is a PIA |
You distributor should be essentially the same as what came with a Digijet fueled Vanagon, but you rotor matches the one that came with a Digifant which is quite different. I recognize that this may or may not be part of your problem, but it could be a contributing factor in causing the spark to bleed off somehow. I would suggest buying the correct L-jet rotor and giving it a try as it seem that the rotor would be the most likely part to kill the spark to all cylinders and you might as well get the one that is most correct for you application. The Vanagon Bentley on page 28.31 shows the Digijet rotor looking just like the late Bay rotor and not like the later Digifant Vanagon rotor. |
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Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Wasted youth wrote: |
My 1981 Vanagon air cooled engine had a distributor that looked just like that. I had a no start situation like you and discovered that the three wire plug to the distributor body had bad connectors inside.
I discovered this by accident, and when I wiggled the plug I would get an intermittent start/run condition. Not saying this is your problem and I'm not even sure if it's actually related to your problem, but it couldn't hurt to try and wiggle that plug around or at least check the connectors while you crank it.
I wound up stripping back the insulation and soldering new wires in the plug. |
I have an '87 Vanagon with the Digitool ECU monitor. At cruise speeds I had an intermittent loss of power. The Digitool identified a loss of injector pulse. That problem seems to have been resolved by cleaning the three wire connection at the distributor with DeeOxit products. That connection, here in Hawaii, seems to be vulnerable to corrosion from our salt spray air.
You can't hurt anything by just exercising that connection.
Aloha
tp |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| gintaras wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| That looks like a rotor for a Digifant distributor, don't know if it would cause a problem with an L-jet distributor or not. |
You have to understand that this is the rotor that came with my bus when I bought it 3 years ago and I have put 40000 miles on it. It's a CA emissions vehicle, and not a lot of people can look at these parts and recognize them.
I really want to convert this over to Fed emissions soon, finding these parts is a PIA |
You distributor should be essentially the same as what came with a Digijet fueled Vanagon, but you rotor matches the one that came with a Digifant which is quite different. I recognize that this may or may not be part of your problem, but it could be a contributing factor in causing the spark to bleed off somehow. I would suggest buying the correct L-jet rotor and giving it a try as it seem that the rotor would be the most likely part to kill the spark to all cylinders and you might as well get the one that is most correct for you application. The Vanagon Bentley on page 28.31 shows the Digijet rotor looking just like the late Bay rotor and not like the later Digifant Vanagon rotor. |
This is correct. It is the same as a digifant distributor. The guts are the same.
The difference in the rotors ....just going off memory is the height.
As long as whatever rotor he is using is not to short or too high to make proper contact to the carbon brush it should not be an issue.
Of course...anything is worth a try. And thinking about this and looking at the pictures...I am inclined to agree there may be an issue....notice that there is a gouge in the distributor cap next to teh carbon brush...and a lot of red-ish dust on the rotor...which may be carbon dust and is just a fluke of the camera. The rotor may be sitting up too high
The other issues with Hall effect come from the plug contacts. They are not especially robust in the pin style. The male pin usually uses a horizontal blade connection instead of vertical.
They sit in a "cup" or recess in the female plug. They can get water and corrosion in them......precisely as Tompowell was getting at.
This issue "may" also be cause by a defective ignition module or a dirty hall effect sensor. If any tinkering has been done you can also get a hall module that is out of alignment.
Also make sure that if you have vacuum advance..make sure that the arm for the vacuum advance can has not slipped off of the lug that holds it to the plate. That can make timing be so far out it will not start. Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22648
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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The gouge and filth on the rotor and cap are all bad.
I also had trouble with the Hall effect connector on water cooled VW this era
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
The difference in the rotors ....just going off memory is the height. |
The difference in the rotor is the width of tip, the Digifant has no built in advance mechanism and thus needs a much wider tip. I really don't know if the wider tip is an issue when used on the earlier distributors, but would consider it causing problems a possibility. |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| gintaras wrote: |
| Thanks everyone. I rented a uhaul and am towing her back home for now. |
end of this part of the story.
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Starbucket
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2007
Posts: 4025
Location: WA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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| Hopefully he posts what it was, when he finds out. |
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telford dorr
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Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3551
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need help please, stranded on I-57 |
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Couple of notes on this era of ignition.
1) It' a good system - if you leave it alone and keep it in working order. If you screw around with it, it can be a pain in the a$$.
2) The 3-terminal connector on the side of the distributor is downright fragile. The plastic is brittle and breaks easily. It's a poor mechanical design (IMNOHO).
3) The coil is special (higher turns ratio, lower primary resistance). A regular coil won't work.
4) ALWAYS make sure the spark from the coil has someplace to go. NEVER leave the HV secondary wire disconnected such that it can't spark to something. Better to short the HV lead to ground. If that coil energy doesn't have a place to spark to, it feeds back to the ignition module and eats it. (Pertronix units are the same way.)
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'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
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