| Author |
Message |
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
 Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
 |
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| What is the correct clock position for the handle when the window is rolled all the way up? |
It depends on the car and seat position relative to the door.
Between 3 and 5 is one of the weakest spots in your hand stroke.
Do not be afraid to adjust it for YOU... |
let's take a different approach to this question.
there is no "correct" position. typically, in original vehicles and/or in vw photos, the crank is often at the 2 o'clock position when looking at it head on on the driver's side, about 10 o'clock on the passenger side, that being with a slight angle upward when the window is closed. based on that generalizaion:
depending on how many turns of the handle it takes to get the window to the full down position, and where the handle ends up might be a larger issue than where the handle is in the window full up position..
some people like to drive or be passengers with their knees propped against the door panel. if the handle is clocked to a downward or downward-facing-forward position when the window is down, it could become a nuisance, or your knee could bust the handle. in this case, it might be better to experiment by changing the handle to a 'comfortable' location when in the window fully down position, and then roll the window up to see where the handle ends up in the window fully up position. perhaps it would be in a good location for your personal preference, perhaps not. if it is, great. if not, you will have to decide a good middle ground where the handle is in a good clocking position in both the window up and window down position.
it might take a few attempts to get it in the perfect position for your preferences. |
yes....as I noted...you really need to adjust it for your needs....and not just for the position its in relative to where your knees are (even though thats very important).
There are enough splines on this part where most can get a good mix of where its comfortable to be...and where it creates the lowest amount of slamming and leverage possible when rapidly rapidly rolling it up and down. Its mostly rolling it up that causes the slamming of the handle and splines.
I also realize that we have a bit more positional room to play in type 3 and 4 cars than you do in a bus....but my point was that once I actually stopped for a few minutes to look at what "I" was doing to the handles....and make a couple of adjustments to clock position.....then do good cleaning and lubing maintenance on the mechanism and guides...I quit breaking the well made stock handles...and therefore quit buying the crappy stock ones.
Another thing that also helps to break winder handles is very poor alignment of the handles due to sloppy fit of the pinion due to either very worn gear set inside (not much you can do about that)....but mostly due to with age...and slamming the handle in the up position at the end of its stroke....the leverage expands the little metal gearbox case.
A little skillful maintenance...clean it out...lube it up...and peen or squeeze the metal tighter around the shaft...then properly clock the handle for your needs....and you largely quit destroying winder handles. Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| What is the correct clock position for the handle when the window is rolled all the way up? |
It depends on the car and seat position relative to the door.
Between 3 and 5 is one of the weakest spots in your hand stroke.
Do not be afraid to adjust it for YOU... |
let's take a different approach to this question.
there is no "correct" position. typically, in original vehicles and/or in vw photos, the crank is often at the 2 o'clock position when looking at it head on on the driver's side, about 10 o'clock on the passenger side, that being with a slight angle upward when the window is closed. based on that generalizaion:
depending on how many turns of the handle it takes to get the window to the full down position, and where the handle ends up might be a larger issue than where the handle is in the window full up position..
some people like to drive or be passengers with their knees propped against the door panel. if the handle is clocked to a downward or downward-facing-forward position when the window is down, it could become a nuisance, or your knee could bust the handle. in this case, it might be better to experiment by changing the handle to a 'comfortable' location when in the window fully down position, and then roll the window up to see where the handle ends up in the window fully up position. perhaps it would be in a good location for your personal preference, perhaps not. if it is, great. if not, you will have to decide a good middle ground where the handle is in a good clocking position in both the window up and window down position.
it might take a few attempts to get it in the perfect position for your preferences. |
I disagree that there is "no correct position"... the 2 o'clock/ 10 o'clock actually seemed to be some sort of DIN standard for German cars in the '60s and '70s... Mercedes, Porsche + Audi, BMW, VW... little shit like that is where my OCD genie really escapes its bottle. It's always the tiny details separating the "Nice!" from the "WOW!!".
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
that's why i mentioned the 2 and 10 positions.
however, with the mish-mosh combintations of new/old/reproduction/replacement parts over the last 40 years, achieving a true 2 and 10 might not be possible. who's to say the positioning of the gear teeth on an aftermarket window winder in combination with a made in who knows where window crank will actually allow for accuracy?
and what happens when a window winder shaft loses its tension and the window crank has some wiggle to it before it actually engages the lifter mechanism?
too many variables, and no, these are not new cars anymore, so what may have been 'correct' back then might not be an achievable goal with any combination of old and/or new parts.
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
handy tip #23: put a small drop of blue loctite on the threads of the screw that holds the window crank to the window lifter mechanism. loose screws will cause flex in the window crank, and can cause a break, stripping of the gear (in the window crank), and general sloppiness.
just be sure your handle is clocked in the 'correct' position before installing the screw.
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50338
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
handy tip #23: put a small drop of blue loctite on the threads of the screw that holds the window crank to the window lifter mechanism. loose screws will cause flex in the window crank, and can cause a break, stripping of the gear (in the window crank), and general sloppiness.
just be sure your handle is clocked in the 'correct' position before installing the screw. |
2x on doing this, saves a lot of grief |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
that's why i mentioned the 2 and 10 positions.
however, with the mish-mosh combintations of new/old/reproduction/replacement parts over the last 40 years, achieving a true 2 and 10 might not be possible. who's to say the positioning of the gear teeth on an aftermarket window winder in combination with a made in who knows where window crank will actually allow for accuracy?
and what happens when a window winder shaft loses its tension and the window crank has some wiggle to it before it actually engages the lifter mechanism?
too many variables, and no, these are not new cars anymore, so what may have been 'correct' back then might not be an achievable goal with any combination of old and/or new parts. |
Well, there most definitely is THAT, especially with replacement VW parts where nothing is impossible for the manufacturers to completely rat- fuck, it seems.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21513
Location: Oklahoma City
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| hazetguy wrote: |
handy tip #23: put a small drop of blue loctite on the threads of the screw that holds the window crank to the window lifter mechanism. loose screws will cause flex in the window crank, and can cause a break, stripping of the gear (in the window crank), and general sloppiness.
just be sure your handle is clocked in the 'correct' position before installing the screw. |
An interesting addition.....but most of the screws for this ai have found in my 411 amd 412 had locking go on them. And my first 411 was 55k miles and I was 2nd owner. Both font and back door window screws had locking adhesive on the threads.
I
Was any of this application "known" factory ?
Ray |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
wcfvw69 
Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004
Posts: 13389
Location: Arizona
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| Tram wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| What is the correct clock position for the handle when the window is rolled all the way up? |
It depends on the car and seat position relative to the door.
Between 3 and 5 is one of the weakest spots in your hand stroke.
Do not be afraid to adjust it for YOU... |
let's take a different approach to this question.
there is no "correct" position. typically, in original vehicles and/or in vw photos, the crank is often at the 2 o'clock position when looking at it head on on the driver's side, about 10 o'clock on the passenger side, that being with a slight angle upward when the window is closed. based on that generalizaion:
depending on how many turns of the handle it takes to get the window to the full down position, and where the handle ends up might be a larger issue than where the handle is in the window full up position..
some people like to drive or be passengers with their knees propped against the door panel. if the handle is clocked to a downward or downward-facing-forward position when the window is down, it could become a nuisance, or your knee could bust the handle. in this case, it might be better to experiment by changing the handle to a 'comfortable' location when in the window fully down position, and then roll the window up to see where the handle ends up in the window fully up position. perhaps it would be in a good location for your personal preference, perhaps not. if it is, great. if not, you will have to decide a good middle ground where the handle is in a good clocking position in both the window up and window down position.
it might take a few attempts to get it in the perfect position for your preferences. |
I disagree that there is "no correct position"... the 2 o'clock/ 10 o'clock actually seemed to be some sort of DIN standard for German cars in the '60s and '70s... Mercedes, Porsche + Audi, BMW, VW... little shit like that is where my OCD genie really escapes its bottle. It's always the tiny details separating the "Nice!" from the "WOW!!". |
Holy shit.. 2 pages now on the proper, exact position of where the winders should be 'positioned'.. 
If I ever worried about being OCD, I don't now.. 
On a serious note, some great tips being provided.
_________________
Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored German Pierburg fuel pumps for sale or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche fuel pumps or I can restore yours**
**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| wcfvw69 wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| hazetguy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| What is the correct clock position for the handle when the window is rolled all the way up? |
It depends on the car and seat position relative to the door.
Between 3 and 5 is one of the weakest spots in your hand stroke.
Do not be afraid to adjust it for YOU... |
let's take a different approach to this question.
there is no "correct" position. typically, in original vehicles and/or in vw photos, the crank is often at the 2 o'clock position when looking at it head on on the driver's side, about 10 o'clock on the passenger side, that being with a slight angle upward when the window is closed. based on that generalizaion:
depending on how many turns of the handle it takes to get the window to the full down position, and where the handle ends up might be a larger issue than where the handle is in the window full up position..
some people like to drive or be passengers with their knees propped against the door panel. if the handle is clocked to a downward or downward-facing-forward position when the window is down, it could become a nuisance, or your knee could bust the handle. in this case, it might be better to experiment by changing the handle to a 'comfortable' location when in the window fully down position, and then roll the window up to see where the handle ends up in the window fully up position. perhaps it would be in a good location for your personal preference, perhaps not. if it is, great. if not, you will have to decide a good middle ground where the handle is in a good clocking position in both the window up and window down position.
it might take a few attempts to get it in the perfect position for your preferences. |
I disagree that there is "no correct position"... the 2 o'clock/ 10 o'clock actually seemed to be some sort of DIN standard for German cars in the '60s and '70s... Mercedes, Porsche + Audi, BMW, VW... little shit like that is where my OCD genie really escapes its bottle. It's always the tiny details separating the "Nice!" from the "WOW!!". |
Holy shit.. 2 pages now on the proper, exact position of where the winders should be 'positioned'..
If I ever worried about being OCD, I don't now..
On a serious note, some great tips being provided. |
Embrace the geekness, my broth@...
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
Ray, i have seen a red type thread locker on many bay bus inner sliding door handle screws. more than just could be considered a random occurrence.
i don't recall seeing any type of thread locker on window cranks of busses.
doesn't mean busses didn't use it for window cranks, i personally just don't recall seeing it there.
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
walkntree
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2015
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| Hi new here and do not know where to post this comment. Although the anchor points on window regulators are welded the gear box is not. Removing the cable will allow you to pinch the tube enough so that the gear box can slide over the two bumps or dogs on the tube then off at the bottom. Of course the plastic tube must be removed. This means that you can use the abundant right hand gear box for the hard to find Left hand regulator, assuming your left tube and cable are in good order. This worked very well on my 1970 bay window. Wish I'd figured this out before I went to the trouble of taking the gearbox apart to weld the handle shaft to the drive gear. This fixed the problem but was not an easy fix. Thanks for all the comments here that have helped me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3551
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
I've found the main failure of the window regulator gearbox is the pot metal outer drive piece snaps. When this happens, the locking spring is not released when the crank is turned, and you thus fight the locking spring until the shaft drive teeth strip. Welding the gear to the shaft allows the window to go up and down, but without a properly working locking spring, you can lower the window by pushing it down with the palms of your hands - not much security.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
walkntree
Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2015
Posts: 3
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
| wow didn't know that was a possibility although mine works as original. I guess I got lucky. My problem was the handle shaft somehow worked free from the gear so I simple tack it to the gear. Like I said though I wouldn't bother again I'd just switch it with a good one from a passenger side. switching one took maybe fifteen minutes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: Best replacement window crank |
|
|
NOS!!! https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2130545
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
