Front bumper /license plate and more

[DuncanS]

A few of you who tracked a couple of my posts already know that I am a nut job who dreams up solutions to problems that either don't exist nor need solving. Such as moving the passenger wiper pivot point (thankfully I never pursued that one as there might not be enough heat up at the top to avoid ice build up) or the heated steering wheel.

So here is another one, but in this case, I think it has some qualities worth sharing and led me to even other crazy thoughts which I'm sure will lead to well deserved harsh criticism and hopefully some humor to help nudge at least some of us towards the saner side.

One thing that always bugged me is the license plate program on the late model fiberglass bumper (which by the way is not fiberglass, but more on that anon. Here is a pic of a nice clean Westy complete with the South African full width lower grill, so clearly he cares about how his jewel looks.

And another:

And finally the embarrassing shot of my '91 as it looked when it arrived home a few years ago including the PO's road rash which clearly needed addressing.

Luckily, when both my old car, yes, you'll be subjected to pics of it later on, and friend's Carat died, they got saved by our mechanic to use as scrap metal dumpsters, so I was able to retrieve his bumpers--and a ton of other stuff as well.

The first step was to carve his up to provide donor parts.

The basic concept was to rework the mounting area to conform to US plate sizes so it didn't look awkward as just an paste-on to a European design. Nothing wrong with their design, I just don't happen to live there.


For dimensions, I took a slim frame holder (seen above) under the left chunk on the of course, modified WorkMate and added a half inch all around. Then a positioning to insure alignment. Note that I've whacked off the bottom of the molding to reposition later.

Then with some wood band sawed to the factory curve and the seam clipped together, the first glass cloth and epoxy resin nailed the two halves in place. If you look in the back ground you can see the rudder of my heavily modified (would you have expected anything different?) sailboat. There was a bunch of 'glassing to do on the boat, so this entire project was shoehorned in when I was mixing up the resin for work on the boat. It was at this point that I realized that the bumper is made of some (unknown) fiber impregnated with an unknown resin, probably thermosetting, and pressed into a female mold. Some of you who have worked on them realize how soft and weak they actually are and as can be seen in the hole to the passenger side of my bumper, it doesn't take a whole lot to trash them. That must have been their idea of a "crumple zone". You can also see some epoxy fairing compound applied over cloth that I used to fill in the damage before I decided to get a little more radical.

A note here on my use of epoxy. I do use quite a lot of polyester compound--Bondo--but now mostly for jigging fixtures or aligning pieces temporarily. I have also used a lot of polyester with glass mat and woven roving, but lately I've moved more towards epoxy as it is both stronger, less prone to water osmosis blistering and frankly, easier to work as 12oz fabric doesn't take up as much room so there is less grinding in preparation. Fabricated parts don't have to be as thick and there are lots of times when that is an advantage. Remember that now all the high tech layups with carbon fibre where strength and weight are important, epoxies are the laminating resins. Down below in the cabin I have used a bunch of Bondo to fill countersunk screw heads and so on in painted cabinetry. However, I now use exclusively West System's low density fairing compound filler as it is easier to sand than Bondo which means there is less damage to the surrounding surfaces. In addition, I've found that with wood which can swell around the Bondo, sometimes even after many coats of paint, the polyester filler can show. So everything you see here is done with epoxies and varying density fillers depending on their need.

[DuncanS]

Sorry, but it's late and will continue shortly.

[rmcd]

Looks promising. Wish I'd done this when rebuilding my bumpers!
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[DuncanS]

What a piker I am. Just finishing reading the entire 7 pages of your panel synchro rebuild, rmcd. I can't believe how incredible your project is. Super impressed. When we had the basement spray foamed, I masked the hell out of the interior and had him spray every thing aft of the B pillars. Fantastic difference and the panels have a nice thump to them instead of the normal body tin knuckle rap sound.

At some point I'll write some stuff about the 100 plus mods I've done, but nothing compared to your vision.

Didn't mean to highjack my own post, but EVERYONE should read yours.

Back to the bumper later

[Jake de Villiers]

[Timwhy]

Get a different plate?

_________________
'15 Audi A3 Quattro
'09 VW Tiguan (dead)
'87 VW Westy
'91 Tin Top
'90 Cabby
What the Westy wants the Westy GETS


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php?search_author=Timwhy&show_results=summary

http://www.youtube.com/user/TIMWHY2?feature=mhee

[DuncanS]

Was slightly annoyed, now am fairly annoyed. Spent an hour and a half on a reply post only to push the wrong button and have it vanish. The next time, 45 mins and then when the computer needed a higher priority--my wife--it again evaporated.

So...........

Nice car Tim. I really liked the Tin Top plate that fits perfectly in the designed space. I notice that you're from Maine and wondered as in New Hampshire we are required to have a front plate. I certainly wish that weren't the case as then I could toss on the German plate I saved from my '87 overseas delivery sunroof Vanagon. From the Maine DOT:

Only one set of Maine registration plates may be displayed on one vehicle. A registration plate must be attached to the front and the rear of each vehicle except ...

I'm wondering how you get around this or is it a photo from a meet? My car is a daily driver and I haven't been to meets and so don't have that opportunity. This is why the whole project popped up.

Also love the roof rack which generates a question. I notice that a bunch of guys, either do what you did or have a a swing out tire mount. Clearly if oversize tires are used and the spare won't fit in the original space, that makes sense, or is the idea to gain more storage? Considering the awkward access and wet location wonder if i'm missing a great opportunity. Thought about making a weatherproof mod and mounting a high capacity inverter for my power tools, but figured that the current system works for me OK.

Back to my bumper thoughts.

The next step was to extend the depth (height) of the plate space. I thought about inserting a spacing strip, but would have had to make a lay-up and there would also have been extra seams to fill and fair. So harvested a piece deep enough to just stick on the bottom.

Note the flanges that stick out on the sides. They had to disappear and the whole thing needed a chunk taken out of the middle. It had a slight curve to it and so had to make saw cuts in the lower edge to allow it to go flat to accommodate the plate frame. A fitted piece of 3/4 ply was sheet rock screwed through from the face flattening the whole shebang and grabbing the two lower parts in the right spot. Waxed paper under first to keep the ply from getting welded in place. The protruding screw tips were ground off flush with the back (well away from the boat as ANY ferrous dust is a disaster around a boat) and then the parts were 'glassed together. I also put blue masking tape across the side gaps to provide a form for cloth and resin.

Then turn it over and remove the ply for a first glimpse.

Here you can easily see the seams where the four parts came together to get the finished size. The workbench where the photo was taken is the tailgate mod. One of the most useful things I've done. I tell people that my car is 30% passenger vehicle, 30% workshop and tool ferrying, 30% truck to lug lumber, bags of fertilizer and concrete, dinghy, sails and other boat stuff around, 30% motel, 30% pure driving experience and 30% motel. In short, everything except a Ferrari. The two strap hinges had one head of the captured pin ground off and the barrels opened up a tad to allow the pins to slip out easily with fingertips only. The support is a captured pair of chains to hooks mounted on the side of the rear hatch opening. By pulling the hinge pins and the chains, everything can go away easily for engine access or whatever. Stealing an idea from the family '41 Ford woodie station wagon, I made canvas sleeves that house the chains and keep them from rattling while underway. The half oval rubstrip let into the edge preserves the edge from being torn up. The piano hinge, only barely visible connects a second layer of 3/4 which makes the top nice and thick for clamping a vice and stiffer. When camping on a nice night this second layer swings up to extend the surface to the end of the opened hatch. The mattress can be used without the tailgate or its extension--three options. When sleeping on the tailgate there is a whole lot more useful (dressing) interior room. The forward edge of the ply is sawn to the curve of the engine deck and is continuously supported by the 3/4" lower flange so the upper surface is flush with the deck. Thus no flexing with kneeling or other heavy loads. I have a very heavy old cotton canvas sail and plan to sew up an item that can enclose the open end to keep the rain and exhaust smells out and heat in while carrying long stuff. I've had great success with RustOleum's two part water proofing and it should work perfectly for camping as well. In the meantime, a modified windsurfer sail goes over the open hatch and down the sides and keeps rain off the workbench, boxes of epoxy 'n stuff. It projects about a foot past the hatch with battens and in a pinch a fella could stand there and do something if the rain isn't too heavy. Wooda had it project farther, but wasn't enough fabric.

Now a test to see. The clearance and proportions are just what I'd hoped for.

An aside here as I can't resist. My friends, or lets say, people who know me say that I'm the original TMI. The license plate was my mother's from the 1935 Ford Phaeton which he bought brand new and surprised her with. We have the original bill of sale for $750 and..........the car.

A couple of shots showing an applied layer of fairing compound. Yes, it looks like a cob job, which it is, but from what you see to smooth wouldn't take more than a couple of minutes, with the random orbital which is why I really like this stuff. The cardboard cylinder of the dry thickening powder you add to the mixed epoxy shows here. 407. Looks purple/red, but after sanding and left to UV, turns to a light mahogany tan color. This was the first application as later on there were just spots to tidy up. No, this was done at home in the shop on a quick trip home to do something else (200 miles from the boat--now you know why there are no seats in the car--even rear--and one of the reason I have it in the first place). I generally don't take the cast iron 10" table saw to the boat yard. Taking the small band and skilsaw along with the Bridgeport seem to be all I need there.

And now to see what it might look like.

Just propped in front of everything, but the effect to check the viszulls works OK.

[kamzcab86]

[Timwhy]

[DuncanS]

Got it. There are many ways to do the non standard thing and I am seriously guilty of slightly--and maybe sometimes even quite a bit more--of cheating. The windshield solution might work for me for a while with the local gendarmes, but seeing the back of the plate in my window would also keep reminding me of how I hate what we have to deal with here given the European plate mounting situation.

Speaking of people's unusual reaction to a normal situation, I just received this from a friend and thought some might chuckle.

I hope a bunch of you can make it—unfortunately I will not be able to attend. I had a fight with a bunch of doctors (and lost—they had knives!) and will be out for a while longer.

Oh, I realize I forgot a photo.

And I'm beginning to have reservations about this bumper mod design.

[IdahoDoug]

Wow, people will take various things from this thread that will stick in their minds. Mine is the blue license plate, its history and the jaw-dropper that you have THE CAR. I'm a total sucker for history, honoring our folks, tradition, and respect of and for those who came before. Bravo.

Tragically, you are going to regret one last effect of this thread. For some reason I have not read or seen much of your work and I'm really active here. Upon seeing this and other things you have done to your Van, I am going to put out the first official request to have a Samba member post MORE. And you, my clever, inventive and disgustingly practical colleague will be the first!!

Regards,
Doug
_________________
1987 2WD Wolfsburg Vanagon Weekender "Mango", two fully locked 80 Series LandCruisers. 2017 Subaru Outback boxer. 1990 Audi 90 Quattro 20V with rear locking differential, 1990 burgundy parts Vanagon. 1984 Porsche 944, 1988 Toyota Supra 5 speed targa, 2002 BMW 325iX, 1982 Toyota Sunrader

[rmcd]

[DuncanS]

OMG--Holy feces, rmcd. This is exactly what my reaction to "ENGY" was. Take a look at this, but get rid of that silly stick. Some say that the Vanagon is the epitome of ugly design or non design, but I beg to differ. It's become as much of a classic as the 23 window barn door. Of course, there aren't as many of them, but the tightly controlled almost military severity of the envelop has captured a ton of us. With this in mind, imagine a full width lower grill on her and the horizontality of the bow of this vessel is extremely well thought out and expressed. There is the windshield, wipers, the light bar and grill, the lower grill (?--pretty much, but the SA design fixes any issue here), the bumper and air dam plus the two stripes of painted tin all creating a strong lateral statement. This is the reason why any attempt to create the "V" shape molding and color change the splits have won't work on this rectilinear face.

So dmcd, I think you were absolutely right and the problem with this effort is that the plate breaks those thwartship (look it up if you lack the nautical speak) sweep motifs. So it was back to the drawing board and much of that work down the tubes, but at least I didn't spend a ton of time fairing the part to the Nth degree prior to priming. This is the reason we do mock-ups and tests before a full commitment. The lower grill--I'm imagining kit bashing the three that I have (2 deads and 1 live) and creating something that runs all the way across with a pair of real driving lights sunk flush (all the way outboard?, or perhaps under the high beams?). If this happens, I'll rig them up with relays so with ignition on (using the "X" circuit--through the load reduction relay), the lights will be in series--thus dim, but make good DRLs. When the switch to turn them on or the headlight switch is activated, it will dump the series relay circuit and switch them back to a normal parallel current path.

[DuncanS]

If anyone cares about the wiring diagram for the combo DRLs/driving lights, let me know and I'll post the circuit.

The first realization, paralleling rmcd's comments, was that it needed to be chucked back into the bandsaw in order to raise the plate. Well, actually, the saber saw with a metal cutting blade, as fiberglass seriously eats wood cutting bandsaw blades. I have a few dull old ones I can use for that purpose, but rather than going to the trouble to change blades, it's just easier to grab the saber saw. In looking at it, I realized that the hole left after removing the plate area and enough of the fake rubber black stripe guard (in a minute) to get rid of most of the section hanging below the lower edge of the bumper, there would be not enough 'glass left to hold it's shape. So the first step was to grind away the support flanges on the back and insert a piece of wood for a "hat section". In fiberglass work, hat sections are used to create longitudinal stiffness.

It is like adding a channel beam to the unreinforced skin. Anything can by used as a core, since the fiberglass is doing the work. Often cardboard tubes slit lengthwise is employed since the core doesn't necessarily need to add to the rigidity. In my case I got some help from the wood, but that wasn't its job. It was easier to bandsaw a section of pine to match the curve. Then saber saw just outside the half round molding and across the lower edge of the "rubber" bumper guard. The idea was to leave enough to provide a transition for the half round upper molding. Once free, I had to continue to cut away the rest of the "rubber" and up into the top surface of the bumper a bit to allow it to be flush with the existing parts. Checking that it was properly aligned, four "grapes" (the volume) of Bondo were added at each corner to tack it in place. Ten minutes later, I flipped it over and ground away any excess above flush and fiberglassed the relocated part in place. And here it is after several passes and the support flanges restored. Nothing back here has to look pretty, it just needs to do its job.

Interestingly, the piece of the "rubber" removed for clearance was exactly the right shape and size to stick on the top and help make the transition from the top molding to the flat upper surface of the bumper. So I pasted that on as well. There is a pic of it later on which shows how lucky and well that turned out.

And here flipped over and dressed up with just a few passes to go.

Although it doesn't look like it because of the different colors, the forward face of the molding on the sides is flush with the "rubber". I keep using that phrase because on boats in a situation where part of the vessel/car makes contact with something--dock/bumper of car in front--a strip of rubber is used to provide protection from paint or body damage.

I seriously considering grinding off the raised black stripe from the entire bumper and substituting this on top. it would have been a huge amount of work. Filling the back hollow would need to be done between the support flanges, with 'glass patches layered over top to make sure the bumper remained stable while the front raised part was ground away. In fact, ground below flush to add more laminations for strength and then all the fairing. Made my circumfraculs ache just to think of it. Would have been nice, but the sailing season was advancing and there was still a lot of boat work to do.

There is a story about every object in this photo, but I'll let you just imagine (well, yes, that is a teak transom I vacuum bagged to the 'glass underneath--but even that wasn't original as I added 18" to the entire stern).

The last--well sort of--was just to nail it on after another "ENGY" test, which passed my muster at least. A really difficult problem, as I'm sure all of you who have messed around with surfaces, whether with melted steel, body putty, joint compound or anything where different colors happen, is the ability to really be sure exactly what you've got until the primer goes on.

[rmcd]

Outstanding. I'll take one! Super crisp edges too.
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[DuncanS]

In the marine industry if a sleazy guy wants to copy and existing hull and start selling the knock-offs, they take a "splash" off the original. In effect they use the original as a male mold, by greasing the boat up and covering it with gel coat, then polyester resin, mat and so on until after reinforcing the new shell with--guess what--hat sections, they pop it off and, voila, an exact copy of the original as a female mold. No plug expense, no naval architect and no morals.

If you were interested, dmcd, I could pull a splash and send it to you. Then with glass, 407 and some resin, you could build your own. The only thing is that to make it really easy it would have to extend all the way past the original Euro beading, which is probably more effort than I'd like to do without figuring that I make thousands and retire. So, if you think it has any value, let me know and I'll be happy to make a splash of the immediate plate area. Maybe you could then top it off to the original beading and make the millions instead of me.

[jimf909]

Thanks for the wonderful post! Your observations on the shortcomings of the first design are spot-on. V2 is looking much better. I also like the boat building references. Do you post your marine work on any forums and will you share a link?

Great stuff.

You asked...

[rmcd]

Thanks for the offer. I'm familiar with the replica process. A buddy of mine does vintage and modern molds of motorcycle fairings and seats. He has had some rare parts flow through his humble shop. If you are a vintage motorcycle person check out the old photos on his FB page. Lots of vintage MC cool. http://www.caferacingparts.com/

My bumper is done until it gets hit. If I have to rebuild it I will definitely do your design although I'm sure my execution will not be nearly as sharp and fit in OEM like!

File this under lessons already learned. one of my rear bumper repairs has cracked. I used Lord Fusor epoxy without rear reinforcing. Next time I will also "glue" aluminum or something behind the repair. Lessons will be repeated until learned!
_________________
VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=

[DuncanS]

Hold your opinion until you see the final product. You might change your mind and in any case will probably say "If only he had moved it just a bit this way, which is what I'm going to do". If that happens the entire posting and topic has been a success.

Always loved the 1924 Triumph--especially with a side car. I can see that your buddy is my guy. I encourage everyone to check out his site.

The clean head-on shot of your Syncro, rmcd, with the full width lower grill helps me realize how my earlier comments on the horizontality of the front end makes sense to me. One of my fantasies has been to put yellow chase LEDs around the corner of the bumper and eliminate the factory turn/parking lights. If a fella could fill in the depression and have the lower grill stop where the upper does, it would make quite a statement.

Will post the next license plate steps a little later on.

[DuncanS]

I decided to splice the new section in situ as I had doubts about being able to get the pieces to all mate up with the right curve and spacing for the bolts at each end. I could have made an elaborate jig, but it would have taken a ton of time. Since the car was used almost hourly getting boat supplies, coffee (the beer was already in the dorm fridge under the bandsaw, [and while we’re at it, note the extra chairs and the coffee table. Sometimes at the lunch hour or late afternoon a bunch of other boaties will stop by. I make a point of having a case cold at all times and tell everyone that even if I’m not there to help themselves as they are members of a private club with privileges. And of course the jar of mayo is part of the lunch.]) it seemed (reread this just skipping all the blather inside the parentheses to figure out what the sentence means—the very frequent margin comments by my teachers in english class was awk) to make the most sense to stiffen the hell out of the bumper before the guillotine work to keep the two ends from flapping in the breeze during the insertion (well, maybe just another pair of parens to really screw things up before the end of the sentence) work.

This was accomplished by adding pads glued with Tightbond II to the lower 2x4 and then nailing that to the underside of the bumper with thickened epoxy. By doing it in the sun on a hot day, the car was drivable within a couple of hours. The verticals then went in with Tightbond and screw blocks to position the upper piece of 3/4 ply, also epoxied directly to the bumper. It had been sawn to provide clearance for installing the new section—not quite enough, it turned out. The next day, after a thorough cure of the epoxy, the cuts were carefully made a tad small so I could sneak up on it and get a tight fit.

Since the insert was a collapsed version of the original, the web support pieces were now in a different configuration. It was important to get the cuts halfway between so there would be plenty of room in the back to add the reinforcing cloth and resin. It would have been a bummer not to have figured it out ahead of time and wind up with a pair of webs an inch apart preventing a decent lay-up. So that’s what the marker lines showing on the bottom part in the first pic are about. If you compare the loose piece in the photo above and the dry fitted one here, it’s obvious that quite a bit of the “wings” were cut back. It was always my intention to make the new section long for exactly this purpose.


Prior to epoxying all the tie bars in place I ground some spots on the bumper to receive cloth and resin later as this would have been impossible once the wood was in place. You can see the grey areas at the bottom of the original bumper and also on top and under some of the upper ply retainer bar where this had been done.

The mating spots on the new insert have been indicated where they will be ground.

Here, the piece is now finally ‘glassed in with the small areas reground after the six little pine tabs set in bondo had hardened to properly position its surfaces in relation to the original bumper. Now, I’ve removed the upper ply retainer and the nerf pieces. At this point I then removed the temporary jigging chunks ‘o pine and ground those areas and added more ‘glass to bring the level a little above flush.

Remember I said that the lower 2 x was fastened to the spacer pieces with Titebond II which I swear by. Well, it had been raining heavily which is why I stuck the car in the hoop shed to finish up on the glass work.

When I backed the car out for a coffee run, the piece of 2 x fell off! I was surprised as I knew this is not waterproof glue, but thought it was better than that. So a bit of warning for you wood butcher clan. Thankfully it didn't happen on the highway at speed. Coudda been ugly.

Ground the ‘glass back flush or slightly below and a thousand passes with the fairing compound. Pulled the entire new item off the car and ‘glassed the back side seams as well. This thing will never break—at least where my work is involved. While it was off, I put some modeling clay over the support flanges and did a test install to see where my rebuild webs might be too low. Built them up, a prime coat, masked and a rattle can shot or 5 of the “rubber” stripe, and there you have it.

I'm very pleased with the way it turned out and thought a few of you might like to see an alternative to the factory plate mount location. It accentuates the horizontal elements well. Although it doesn't show in this photo, I need to fill all the spot rivet dents just above the air dam and will paint that whole area flat black. I don't like the stripe of blue between the bumper and air dam. But that can wait until next Spring when the boat prep season begins again.

It turns out that this is far from the end of the story and from now on the real craziness begins.