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Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel)
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epowell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
The tool in the press above is a common press tool not specific to VW.


Ok... so a "bearing separator" is a standard thing...
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
MarkWard wrote:
The tool in the press above is a common press tool not specific to VW.


Ok... so a "bearing separator" is a standard thing...


there are a few designs, but yes, a bearing puller is a standard workshop tool:
https://www.google.hu/search?q=bearing+puller&...p;bih=1069
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epowell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Aha... so "bearing spreader" and "bearing PULLer" are the same thing.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:07 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

With all due respect Edward .. transaxle work isn't normally taken on by guys who aren't already versed in engine and/or general machinery repair.

That corroded housing is way beyond something most rebuilders would consider useable in a rebuild .. although it could probably make a suitable jig.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
Reading thru the course.... he is now removing the gears from the stack - and says you need tool number LE167 "bearing spreader" ["to get up underneath 3rd gear"]
--- is this a special tool I will also need? He doesn't mention it specifically in the req.tools list.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Removing the synchronizer like this, will crack edges of the gear wheel off.
You should use always if possible a short tube to do this work

I have done only 2 of the old gearboxes but i never used a "jiik".
If i remember right i have measured the position of the forks.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

gears wrote:
With all due respect Edward .. transaxle work isn't normally taken on by guys who aren't already versed in engine and/or general machinery repair.

That corroded housing is way beyond something most rebuilders would consider useable in a rebuild .. although it could probably make a suitable jig.


Yeah, sometimes i think this too, with the "versed in engine and/or general machinery repair.", if ppl start to dreaming about repairing engines and/or gearboxes.
But than i think if somebody can do an fantastic instrument (like Ed), or another complicated thing, he should be able to learn how to repair a (for me) simple gearbox.
I think i could also learn to do a instrument if Ed helps me with his knowledge.

I have sandblasted today a box that was looking like Ed ones. It needs a fine sand.
Tomorrow i will be paint it with Owatrol, and it will be good for another 20 years.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

epowell wrote:



Here are some pics of my current box... I think it is the SLOWEST possible box - my guess is 5.8RP and 8.8 4th. At 70kph it is already high revs.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I'm not suggesting this would make the case shown a viable rebuild core but I repaired similar damage on my WBX transmission case with JB Weld and washers. I haven't put a lot of miles on those repairs but so far, those repairs are holding. The JB Weld also worked to reestablish threads at clutch cross shaft bushing securing bolt hole and repair lost material at the shift linkage bushing ears. Its fussy work but it could help prolong the life of the transmission shown.

Neil.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

My preference would be to build transmissions vs engines. I was always surprised how many dealer technicians shied away from doing transmissions. It was like they were full of spiders and snakes or something.
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epowell
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi wrote:
gears wrote:
With all due respect Edward .. transaxle work isn't normally taken on by guys who aren't already versed in engine and/or general machinery repair.

That corroded housing is way beyond something most rebuilders would consider useable in a rebuild .. although it could probably make a suitable jig.


Yeah, sometimes i think this too, with the "versed in engine and/or general machinery repair.", if ppl start to dreaming about repairing engines and/or gearboxes.
But than i think if somebody can do an fantastic instrument (like Ed), or another complicated thing, he should be able to learn how to repair a (for me) simple gearbox.
I think i could also learn to do a instrument if Ed helps me with his knowledge.

Actually, Waldi - what Gears said is exactly what everyone was telling me about instrument building when I started 17 years ago with zero schooling and little experience. Today I'm considered one of the world's best instrument makers... I know I can't rebuild the box by myself - but with generous help and lots of patience, I'm sure I can do it. Same way I know for a fact I can also teach anyone here how to build a guitar. Its just "one foot in front of the other > keep on moving"...

Waldi wrote:

I have sandblasted today a box that was looking like Ed ones. It needs a fine sand.
Tomorrow i will be paint it with Owatrol, and it will be good for another 20 years.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Maybe mine is reviveable? What's your opinion about using it to make a jig?
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Waldi
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

I have no idea about this "jiig".

Edit:

You can use any kind of r+p for this box.
from newer boxes and from Syncro boxes (i kill you Wink
You just need to cut it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi wrote:
I have no idea about this "jiig".


This is the jig.
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Gears was saying that a scrap old housing can be cut up and made to work like this jig (if I understood him correctly)
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Yeah, i was following the post, but i never used it.

Gear is the man Wink
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

For what it is worth, I rebuilt my DK 091 using the Bentley Manual. (almost identical to your transmission)

I only used the Pinion Nut tool, 12 ton press with associated blocks and common bench tools. I did make a tool to remove the adjusting rings.

I did not use a jig (marked the position of each shifter with a very sharp hard chisel and took close-up photos after marking and before disassemble).

I marked the relative position of the adjusting rings for the Diff per the Bentley.

Setting the "position" of the big straight cut reverse gear was the only thing that really had me concerned. Seems clearance from 2nd gear is a maximum of 0.020"

I installed all new bearings except the pinion and diff bearings, upgraded 3rd & 4th gears, new 3rd/4th slider & hub & shifting fork, new Reverse Gears, all new brass syncro rings, and new gaskets.

All stuff above come from Weddle Industries..

I've put over 80k miles on the transmission ... works great. I later upgraded the input shaft to one with larger splines to accept a TDI clutch disc. I also, installed the 0.020" plate to hold bearings in place (aftermarket thingy that I am not sure is worth the effort). Seems I got it from Van-café... requires having 0.020" milled off the shifter cone of the housing.

So, in my opinion, you will be fine with the rebuild.

I suggest:

-Pressure wash the transmission on the outside really clean
-Use containers to place bolts/nuts with labeling
-After removing the bell housing, stand the tranny up so the oil can finish draining over night
-Take a photos as you tear it down
-Have a good work area with plenty of space
-Press is absolutely necessary
-Pressing gears off/on, heat them a little with a propane torch (not blistering hot)

For extremely good references, I'll loan you my Pinion Nut socket at your cost of shipping in both directions.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi wrote:
Yeah, i was following the post, but i never used it.

Gear is the man Wink

gears wrote:
That jig is a precision machined tool meant to bolt the two shafts and intermediate housing to. This allows you to then set the forks. The jig simulates a housing .. but it's wide open so that you can access the fork adjustments and see what's going on. (A jig isn't needed for the later waterboxer transaxles.)

The same thing can be achieved at a far lower cost by cutting windows in an old housing.


You never use this jig? ...how do you 'set the forks'?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

AndyBees wrote:
For what it is worth, I rebuilt my DK 091 using the Bentley Manual. (almost identical to your transmission)

Excuse my ignorance, but you are not referring to the regular Vanagon Bentley are you?? I looked in there and I could not find material on rebuilding - only removing and installing. Is there another Bentley dedicated to gearbox rebuilding?

AndyBees wrote:

For extremely good references, I'll loan you my Pinion Nut socket at your cost of shipping in both directions.


Thanks so much for this offer... If I take you up on it, I would be happy to give you a paypal deposit for the full value of the tool.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

I have measured the possition of the forks when i have dissansambled the box.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi wrote:
I have measured the possition of the forks when i have dissansambled the box.


Aha... like Andy! ...so there is an 'alternative method' which can avoid using this jig.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Do you have a 5,43 r+p ?
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Waldemar Sikorski
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi wrote:
Owatrol


Tell me more.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

your case is nasty but mine was almost as bad. pressure washed it, painted it with aluminum primer (i know, it's Mg), then Rustoleum gray. it's okay. sandblasting would've been great.

if you have 'the knack' you can do this, and as an instrument builder you probably do. i did my 091/1, first trans ever, and so far so good. did i miss some things an experienced builder would do, sure. but i spent the labor money on parts and possibly ended up with a better trans than if a builder had rushed thru one for me. worst case scenario, you screw up a transaxle. whatever, buy a different one. none of this is like it is flight related, where if you break down, you're quite possibly screwed for life. inconvienient and expensive, yes. life threatening, rarely.


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-dan
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