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Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel)
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:21 am    Post subject: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Hi Folks

I have started a bunch of transmission threads recently but this one will be consolidated and focused fully on the actual rebuild of my DM.

The first question I have is simply this: I have ordered and received the LONG ENTERPRISES 091 REBUILD COURSE CD - and I have a problem with this product. For some strange reason Rick has used photos of extremely low resolution. The course is simply made up of about 250 photos with instructional texts below them > I know that many of you have used this LONG CD with success --- how did you get around the fact that the photos are blurry? Was this an issue for any of you? Or once you actually do the work, is it obvious what he is talking about?

thanks...
Ed
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:41 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Ed, not familiar with the instructional cd, but once you start digging in, it will probably make more sense. My suggestion would be to take the one you will least likely use apart. Half the battle is dismantling any manual transmission. Without experience you can possibly damage something or lose a small part. Better to learn on that one. Take pictures as you go and stay organized. It is easy to get confused. The Bentley manual has a lot of transaxle detail, but does assume you have experience.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:27 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

I think when he made that CD the 1Mpix cameras were the only option

here is the online version:
http://www.longenterprises.com/Rebuilders_course_photo_gallery/
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Ed, not familiar with the instructional cd, but once you start digging in, it will probably make more sense. My suggestion would be to take the one you will least likely use apart. Half the battle is dismantling any manual transmission. Without experience you can possibly damage something or lose a small part. Better to learn on that one. Take pictures as you go and stay organized. It is easy to get confused. The Bentley manual has a lot of transaxle detail, but does assume you have experience.


Thanks Mark... I probably won't actually get around to wrenching until March (due to overload of instrument making work and kitchen remodeling) but yes this is what I will do... I have 3 DMs: 2 supposedly working, 1 broken but with an excellent housing. My plan is first to install both "working" boxes just to test them, then dismantle the broken DM - and use it's housing for a final rebuild using parts from the other boxes.

I do imaging that it will be more clear once I get started, but it is kinda disappointing to have to look at these pixels. Otherwise the course seems wonderful and I am super grateful that at least it exists.


ZsZ wrote:
I think when he made that CD the 1Mpix cameras were the only option

here is the online version:
http://www.longenterprises.com/Rebuilders_course_photo_gallery/


Yes, the resolution is not at all better than what we see on the on-line samples. Zoom in a little bit and all you can see are pixels. It is enough to give you a headache if you try to study it for any length of time.... but alas, probably it was made in the old days before decent cameras. Anyone know the year this was made?
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

i used Rick's CD and had the same frustration with resolution. but the information is totally worth the cost and really was a help. between the CD and trans threads here with HiRes photos, you'll have the info you need. just about everything has been documented if you can find it. i'd get more direct hits Googling vs using Samba's search, especially if i used the term 'Samba' in the google search.

-dan
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epowell
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:31 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

DanHoug wrote:
i'd get more direct hits Googling vs using Samba's search, especially if i used the term 'Samba' in the google search.


Aha... this is a very good tip! Thanks!

Yes - there is no doubt that I will need a variety of input sources - and thank God these days most online photos are high res..

I can see this is going to be a long term project to do it right. Every micro-step will need to be triple checked.
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Waldi
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

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For the late box you will need to cut 1/4 out of the big tube.
I have made mine just thin, but this is suboptimal.
You can use the 3rd gear also in a vice with alu protection if you dont have a bad one to weld it somewhere.

On youtube there is a vid about gearbox work.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

This is great Waldi!! I assume these are some of the tools which I can make myself!

The LONG CD tells me that the tools I need include the following:
1) Differencial adjuster tool
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2) Pinion nut socket
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3) Fixture for removing/installing 1st gear needle bearing race
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4) Ring and pinion backlash tool
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

5) Shift fork jig
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Are some of these the ones you show here Waldi?

Thanks!
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gears
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Waldi shows all but the last one (jig), which can be made by cutting windows in an old main case.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

gears wrote:
Waldi shows all but the last one (jig), which can be made by cutting windows in an old main case.

Aha... that's very cool - so seems I can make all of those. As for the "jig" I think I will try using a piece of a trespa panel - I have this stuff in 13mm thick panels and it is almost as hard as aluminum but easier to work with and cheaper.

Waldi said that I would have to spend about 300euro on tool also - I guess that will be for the "assembly" part (which I have not yet looked at).

So seems I can assume that for disassembly I can get by with homemade tools.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

I highly recommend that you NOT try to simulate a housing with paneling. A cheap Type II 002 housing would work, and you'd only need to make a "post" of the correct diameter for the reverse sliding gear.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

gears wrote:
I highly recommend that you NOT try to simulate a housing with paneling. A cheap Type II 002 housing would work, and you'd only need to make a "post" of the correct diameter for the reverse sliding gear.


I'm not completely sure what you are referring to... "housing" means this jig?
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


What is "A cheap Type II 002 housing"?

Sorry for my ignorance?
I should probably not jump the gun and ask questions before fully reading thru the entire course.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

That jig is a precision machined tool meant to bolt the two shafts and intermediate housing to. This allows you to then set the forks. The jig simulates a housing .. but it's wide open so that you can access the fork adjustments and see what's going on. (A jig isn't needed for the later waterboxer transaxles.)

The same thing can be achieved at a far lower cost by cutting windows in an old housing.

Since the earlier 3-rib 002 housing is by far more plentiful than the later 6-rib 091 housing, it is the cheapest way to make a decent "jig". (Old 002 housings are often thrown away by trans shops.) Windows are cut into the housing to access the shift fork bolts, and to observe fork positions.

The only real dimensional difference between 002 and 091 is the diameter & spline count of the reverse sliding gear. So, a simple plain adapter post (it doesn't have to be splined, just of the correct diameter) can be made to simulate the grooved reverse idler shaft. This allows you to set reverse idler gear position.

I can send pics in 1 month, when I return to Oregon.

The tools that Waldi has shown may look simple, but I guarantee you'll have a fair amount of time invested in making them. It could be less hair-pulling to invest in a set of used tools. But .. some guys like the challenge .. it's entirely up to you.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Ah! Thanks for this explanation. I now have 4 091s in total including the working gearbox on my van now with VERY corroded housing. 2 of the others have very good housings, and one is so-so. My guess is that once I take the gearbox out of my van I would probably never use that housing again > maybe I could sacrifice that one to make this jig? .002 is a T2 gearbox, right? ...I won't find ANY of them here in Czech. There are no baybuses over here. So if I can find a scrap 091 DM housing that would be the best, right? And with that I would not need to make any extra posts??

Yes, I am fully aware of how much time and effort this will take. I'm strange > I do this kind of thing for relaxation, and am budgeting perhaps even years to complete... that being said I will keep my eyes open for good sets of used tools and if reasonable, just buy them Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Yes, use your worst 091 case to make a jig.

Your #4 tool should show a dial indicator.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

The 81-82 DM diesel and DZ diesel 091 used the weaker early 002 case so you should have that already Ed. Look at the numbers on your cases and ask Gears if one is what you need. The much more common T3 091 tranny over here is the DK from an aircooled T3 and these use the stronger 6 rib 091 case, from 80-83.

Mark
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Four of the same transaxle, so just sacrifice one housing to make the jig from.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

gears wrote:
Four of the same transaxle, so just sacrifice one housing to make the jig from.


To clarify... I just purchased 3 used DMs (one broken and without bellhousing). The box on my van does not have any model markings but I'm pretty certain it is a DZ or DY... so I think the case is the same anyway. This case is the WORST from the 4 - HOWEVER, the box is currently functioning pretty well and perhaps a pity to slaughter it so soon (can work as a back up for some time).

Let's see.... perhaps I can locate an old case for peanuts >>> I'll try.

Here are some pics of my current box... I think it is the SLOWEST possible box - my guess is 5.8RP and 8.8 4th. At 70kph it is already high revs.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

Reading thru the course.... he is now removing the gears from the stack - and says you need tool number LE167 "bearing spreader" ["to get up underneath 3rd gear"]
--- is this a special tool I will also need? He doesn't mention it specifically in the req.tools list.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuilding 091 DM transmission (early diesel) Reply with quote

The tool in the press above is a common press tool not specific to VW.
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