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dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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 Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:32 pm Post subject: Underdash Electric Sort Out |
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Backstory:
A while back I posted regarding some mystery wiring in my 1966 Sundial. The PO installed a 6 to 12 volt conversion in 1990. Here's a link to that conversation:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=689247
The PO installed the 12 to 6 voltage reducer and attached two components.
1. Power feed to the windshield wiper motor.
2. Power to the lights in the gas gauge that extends over and supplies power for the lights in the oil temp gauge.
This puzzles me. Why wouldn't the PO simply change the bulbs from 6 to 12 and be done? What am I not seeing here?
The other anomaly discovered behind the driver's side kick panel was the installation of a "work around" for the replacement of the flasher Number
211 953 227 B. This was installed in 1990 when the replacement flashers were unobtainable for love or $$$.
To its credit, all of the electric works and has worked well for the 20 years I've owned the bus. The exception being that the switched for the overhead lights' located on the front door jambs and the small switch on the left of the steering wheel. The PO apparently removed all the wiring to the o/h lights and parcel tray and re-feed them from other power sources.
The parcel tray light was working before I removed the tray. Now I have a brown wire from the light and no idea as to where it should land.
So this is the plan:
1. Extend a 2nd wire from Terminal 58b over to the oil temp gauge lights and extend the wiring over to the gas gauge. This should give me lights at these two gauges that come on with the light switch.
2. Using a split spade land the brown wire from the parcel tray light to terminal _________? I want to have keyed power to the light but use the switch on the light for on and off.
3. Once the underdash mess is sorted out, I'll take the bus to a pro and have them remove the "work around" and install a new 9-pin flasher.
If you took the time to read this whole thing, thank you. Finally, given the information supplied, I am I missing any components? Is my plan doable or misguided. Any ideas appreciated and considered.
Thanks all,
dgsaz |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Underdash Electric Sort Out |
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Stock brown wires are ground. So you should try to follow that wire back to where is comes from..
Gauge lights just need to be on same wire as the other dash lights as is the speedo illumination.
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In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Hoehleneule
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2017
Posts: 24
Location: Missouri
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Underdash Electric Sort Out |
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| dgsaz wrote: |
| Why wouldn't the PO simply change the bulbs from 6 to 12 and be done? What am I not seeing here? |
Assuming the PO powered the 12-to-6 V reducer from the stock windshield wiper power wire (the solid black wire that comes from the fuse for circuit 15), then the bulbs in the gas gauge and oil temperature gauge would have come on at full brightness whenever the ignition key was on, and you wouldn't have been able to adjust the brightness.
I don't know why they would have wanted that. Maybe the oil temperature gauge was hard to see unless it was illuminated? Or perhaps the oil temperature gauge only has one "power" wire, for both illumination and the part that drives the needle, so it has to have power to work at all?
Maybe they were afraid of "overloading" the rheostat in the headlight switch that lets you dim the gauge lights. In a Deluxe, that rheostat also supported the clock illumination light, so adding one more lamp to it in a non-Deluxe shouldn't be a big deal.
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| The exception being that the switched for the overhead lights' located on the front door jambs and the small switch on the left of the steering wheel. |
A stock '66 wouldn't have had switches in the door jambs from the factory. Maybe Sundial added them, or a PO added them - I don't know.
A door jamb switch that only controls a light is usually wired one of two ways. The switch can have two wires to it, or just one. You have to know which kind you have in order to know how to wire it.
If it has two wires, then usually a hot wire comes from the fuse box to the door switch. Another wire goes from the door switch to the dome light, and finally the dome light is grounded somehow (often through its mounting screws). The door switch connects the two wires together (and not to anything else) when the door is open.
If it has only one wire, then usually a hot wire comes from the fuse box to the dome light. Another wire goes from the dome light to the door switch. The door switch grounds that wire to the body when the door is open.
The switch on the left side of the speedo pod is stock. It would have been used to turn on the dome light in the cargo/back seat area on a stock Bus.
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| The parcel tray light was working before I removed the tray. Now I have a brown wire from the light and no idea as to where it should land. |
I'm not sure what you mean by "parcel tray light". Are you talking about a light under the dash (like, near the radio) that lights up the tray in front, or one near the back hatch that lights up the area over the engine, or...? Neither of those would have been on a stock Bus, but they might have been installed by Sundial or a PO.
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| The parcel tray light was working before I removed the tray. Now I have a brown wire from the light and no idea as to where it should land. |
Like E&B said, on a stock Bus, a brown wire would be a ground. If Sundial or a PO added or moved a light, then the brown wire might be power, or something else entirely.
A relatively safe way to test that idea would be with a 12 volt test light. Clip one end of the light to either end of the far right fuse (circuit 30) in the fuse box. Briefly ground the other end of the test light to the Bus body to make sure the test light comes on full bright. Then, take that end of the test light away from the body, and touch it to that brown wire coming from the dome light.
If the test light glows just as brightly as it did when you grounded it to the Bus body, go to the dome light and flip the switch the other way. If the test light still glows brightly after you flip the switch, then that wire is probably a ground wire, and you need to investigate further. If the test light goes out completely after you flipped the switch, then you probably found the power wire to the dome light switch.
If the test light glows kinda half-assed, then the dome light will probably also be glowing half-assed, and you have found the dome light power wire.
If the test light doesn't glow at all, go to the dome light and flip the switch the other way. If the test light glows brightly after you flip the switch, you probably found the power wire to the dome light. If the test light glows half-assed after you flip the switch, and the dome light glows half-assed, then you have found the dome light power wire. If the test light still doesn't glow at all, investigate further.
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| 1. Extend a 2nd wire from Terminal 58b over to the oil temp gauge lights and extend the wiring over to the gas gauge. This should give me lights at these two gauges that come on with the light switch. |
Assuming you mean 58b at the headlight switch, that should probably work. If you are feeling OG, use grey wire and draw red stripes on it with a Sharpie. 
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| 2. Using a split spade land the brown wire from the parcel tray light to terminal _________? I want to have keyed power to the light but use the switch on the light for on and off. |
If the tests above show that that brown wire really is a power wire to that light, and if by "keyed power" you mean "goes on and off with the ignition switch", you should probably end up on the fused side of circuit 15. You can get that at the solid black wire connected to the "+" terminal on the wiper switch, or at the solid black wire that used to go to "15" on the 9-prong box, or at the fuse box itself.
To get it at the fuse box, you need a test light. Pull out the second-from-right fuse and turn the ignition on; your turn signals and wipers should not work if you try them. Ground one end of the test light and try the other end of the test light against both the top and bottom clips for the fuse you just pulled out. The end that doesn't make the test light come on is the end you want. Turn the key off when you're done.
Hoehleneule |
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dgsaz
Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 579
Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Underdash Electric Sort Out |
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Brown wire @ parcel tray light. Photos always help.
I'll run a wire from the battery and test the light. Because of the end on the wire
and the possibility of the light being self grounding, I think the brown wire might be the power source. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Underdash Electric Sort Out |
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| dgsaz wrote: |
Because of the end on the wire
and the possibility of the light being self grounding, I think the brown wire might be the power source. |
Quite probably, but still take off the lens and see that it is wired that way. Personally if that is a positive connection, would wire in a proper Euro wire color for that.
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