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Goach2
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Joined: November 20, 2017
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Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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 Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:18 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Sounds like good advice. My only issue is that unless it's completely obvious, I'm not sure I can identify any issues. I am looking for an engine stand now. I will post lots of pics once I get it open and hopefully someone can help assess the health of this motor.
FYI - All tin was in place on this before I started stripping it down. The engine to body seal was gone, but so was all the vac lines and other items 'picked' off the top. It has sat for at least 12 years before I got it.
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Randy in Maine
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| If you are not splitting the case there isn't much need in an engine stand. You can do all the work easily enough with it just sitting on a bench. Even if you want to sit it on the flywheel end, four 3/8x3" fully threaded bolts, eight nuts and 4 slightly modified flat washers is all you need to support the engine with the flywheel still in place, with the flywheel removed just a couple of 2x4 blocks will do. |
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
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Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Goach2 wrote: |
| FYI - All tin was in place on this before I started stripping it down. |
So,
You have gotten the motor out, and all of the tin off, and have reconciled every piece with the diagrams in the Bentley?
That was fast! 
You are really lucky, it's so rare to find a complete thermostat assembly these days..!
OK, I'll stop. Sorry.
There are a lot of little pieces of tin,
Not just those two big ones on top.
Back in the 80s, when i could pull apart three or four of these in one afternoon at the junkyard,
It was years later that i was still finding little pieces of tin that i had never seen before.
Unless the motor was still assembled by VW in Germany, some tin is likely to be missing.
One thing you can guarantee about these busses,
is that if ever a dirty hippy or greasy gas station bubba or wide-eyed high-school kid was in there,
There would be a whole box of little thisses and thats they had leftover after their work.
A regular German car mechanic on the clock would only have a handful of parts left over.
A dealer mechanic, maybe one or two..
All of them are needed to keep your motor cool when it pushes a heavy bus down the highway.
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Goach2
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Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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No, motor is still in, but I've already collected the replacement tins to change to the '72-'74 exhaust setup, so I have a pretty good idea of what is required.
I guess I could put this motor on my bench, as suggested. Approximately how much does it weigh?
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Clatter wrote: |
All of them are needed to keep your motor cool when it pushes a heavy bus down the highway. |
Don't you know that VWs don't have cooling systems and thus all the tin is just junk the engineers added to make the engine look neater. I actually stopped and looked at a van sitting in front of someones house with a FOR SALE sign on it that had no tin over the engine at all. When I talked to the owner he claimed he drove it all the time and it never overheated. |
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Clatter
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Joined: September 24, 2003
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Location: Santa Cruz
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
All of them are needed to keep your motor cool when it pushes a heavy bus down the highway. |
Don't you know that VWs don't have cooling systems and thus all the tin is just junk the engineers added to make the engine look neater. I actually stopped and looked at a van sitting in front of someones house with a FOR SALE sign on it that had no tin over the engine at all. When I talked to the owner he claimed he drove it all the time and it never overheated. |
That's an example of what I call "Nick Logic"..
My friend Nick, same deal.
I'm like "Oh NO!! you don't have any oil in this thing!" or some such,
And he was always like "It's been running like that for months"..
Therefore, the inference is not that it's overdue to blow up,
Conversely,
It's used as proof that there is no problem.
Nick went through three low-mileage one-owner Phoenix-native '76-'79 Westy camper busses in under two years.
I remember he bought one from an 86-year-old man that had only around 30K original miles.
Nick paid $3500 for it, and we couldn't believe how much that was! 
To the OP:
Have a friend help you pick up the motor onto a bench or crate.
A big guy can do it himself, but he has to really want to..
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Clatter
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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I'm like "Hey Mitch, can you help me lift this motor on the stand?".
He would always push me aside, and pick it up onto the stand himself.
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:39 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Clatter wrote: |
I'm like "Hey Mitch, can you help me lift this motor on the stand?".
He would always push me aside, and pick it up onto the stand himself. |
I used to pick them up by myself, now I get the wife to help.  |
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Goach2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Wildthings - do you have any pics of an engine sitting on these 4 bolts? It may be easiest to go that way...
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Wildthings
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Goach2 wrote: |
| Wildthings - do you have any pics of an engine sitting on these 4 bolts? It may be easiest to go that way... |
Sorry I do not, it has been a while since I did an engine this way. They just go in the four holes that are used to mount the engine to the tranny. You have to remove the two lower studs, so actually you need two 10m metric bolts for the lower holes, for the upper holes you will have one nut on each side of the mounting flange and the flat washer needs to be cut so that it will give an even surface for the nuts to sit against.
Be gentle when rocking the engine up onto its arse end, you don't want to break any thing as you do this. |
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Goach2
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:05 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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I think I have someone who's going to loan me a stand. Can i get away without the stand adapter? I'll probably be doing this sooner than I could locate one, and may not ever use it again...
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Abscate
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Clatter wrote: |
I'm like "Hey Mitch, can you help me lift this motor on the stand?".
He would always push me aside, and pick it up onto the stand himself. |
I used to pick them up by myself, now I get the wife to help. |
Me too. Is this still about engines?
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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| Goach2 wrote: |
| Can i get away without the stand adapter?... |
Yes, you'll need some ~1.5" pieces of 1/2" water pipe (or surplus sockets) and some longer bolts and studs, you can arrange the 4 moveable legs on the V8 style stand to line up over the mount holes (and studs), the sockets (or pipe) allows clamping tight against the flange squarely while missing the raised inner lip in the bellhousing flange and the flywheel. It takes some doing and you'll want to experiment to find a spot close to the center of gravity so it doesn't roll over wildly when you pull the pin.
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Goach2
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| Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Engine stand acquired. Stay tuned for some engine-pulling pics...
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Goach2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:42 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Well, it's out. I was just trying to prep it for when I could get some help to pull it, but I got bored and it came out. The only other engine I've pulled out was out of a camaro 20 years ago. I can't believe how simple these air-cooled engines are.
Now that it's out, I was hoping to get some assistance on the visual state of my clutch and maybe some help figuring out how to align the motor mount from the stand. I don't have the spacers yet, but I can get two of the arms mounted, however it's not in a position to get a 3rd one on. The nuts that hold the arms to the plate get in the way of the clutch. Any one have a good pic of a setup that worked for them?
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Goach2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Busdaddy - you mentioned FluidFilm to protect the engine block. Does it burn off/smoke? Also, do you just spray it on? Or do you wipe it afterwards. It says it stays 'wet' so dirt will stick to it.
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:30 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Congratulations!, the first time is always the hardest.
You'll have to remove the pressure plate and clutch to provide clearance for that stand mount. The end result you are after is to have that shaft that goes into the stand centered over the center of the crankshaft. I doubt whoever loaned you that stand will be happy if you take a grinder to the inside of each of those bushings and make room for the flywheel, thin short sections of pipe to extend out just past the flywheel and longer bolts are likely your best option (aside from buying the real VW specific adaptor).
Yes Fluid film stays a little sticky, easy to get off with a little degreaser and a hose, the alternative is corrosion and that's not nearly as easy to get off. It will burn off the parts that get really hot as well, if you are using the bus all the time it doesn't matter, but park it somewhere damp for years on end with no use and you may see some corrosion.
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Goach2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Ok, so leave the flywheel on, but put longer spacers and bolts in. Originally, I was told 1.5" spacers, but that won't clear the flywheel and I will need 4" or 5" bolts as well. Is that still safe? I'll try reversing the bolts on the stand arms as well, to give me a little more clearance.
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Goach2
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| Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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So before risk life and limb putting this on the stand, how does it look? I had to use 4 -3/8" bolts, 5" long. I cut down some 1/2" black pipe and ground a small divot in each one to fit. I had to drill two holes in two of the stand arms for the bottom bolts to attach to it. It's not tight yet, I just wanted to get an opinion or two before I do.
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