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/New-to-Me Engine, what's missing
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Ok WY,

Your effort is greatly appreciated Wink

I'm going to check out a local place this weekend and see what I can find there. Looks like there's a decent sized shopping list...

Also, I was able to confirm the engine ID on the block is the same as posted.
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popuppopdog
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
now a proud owner of a '77 Westfalia. Is there anything else obviously not there?

Thanks!

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Holy shit! A lot of important stuff ,who knows what else ,stick here lots of great help, Everett ,tcash,wildthing,hoody,wastedyouth, and so many more , private message me for pics of what it should look like, I am just starting my 77 journey, well picking back up, after 12 idle years good luck hope you have good lights, good equipment and tools, plus cash and time
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:58 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Thanks popuppopdog, I'm going to do the best with what I have. It's only been a few days and I have already gotten great support from this site. Looking forward to many more and being able to reciprocate in the future.
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

If you do not have the Bentley manual, please get it as soon as you can. Chapter 10 has wealth of information covering the L-Jetronic fuel injection parts, theory and testing. It is my opinion that when the system is properly cared for, it runs that two liter engine like a dream. With that thought, you must understand that system has ZERO tolerance for hacks, vacuum leaks, and bad parts or questionable electrical connections. Everything must be damn near perfect if you expect a trouble-free experience.

You can run a small block Dodge or other heavy American iron with all sorts of crappy maintenance, vacuum leaks and shitty fuel delivery, but not L-Jet. You will need to be prepared to source quality parts and learn how that orchestra plays.

Check out the Technical pull-down tab up there on the top right of your screen. There's some great FREE information in there!

Technical > Owner's Manuals > Owner's/Parts/Other Manuals > Type 4 > Other: Fuel Injection manual

Also see Technical Instruction Manuals under the same pull down tab.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

That seems to be the consensus on FI engines. My local resource said it may be better/easier in the long run to go double carb intake. I'm going to see if I have good compression and if I can get it running as-is first.

Distributor has been rebuilt with new plugs/wires. Getting closer...
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

So this is going to be a difficult question, but I'm throwing it out there while I troubleshoot myself as much as possible. I have new dizzy parts and just finished installing new fuel hoses. I would like to see if I can get it to run, even if it's short-lived. It is still missing all the intake parts and air-flow meter, plus all the wires to the coil were cut. Oh and to make it even more difficult, the column ignition is in the glovebox Wink I've tested the fuel-pump with jumpers and it runs. I've put a jumper across the ignition wires, hopefully this simulates a start. I've also run + and - to the coil. In this state, I connect my battery and the starter turns the engine over. I need a helper to determine if the fuel-pump is running, but if it is, will this catch? Or do I need to connect some of these other 'cut' wires to the coil? I'm not sure how to test if the ECM is actually firing the injectors or not.

Not the ideal setup, I know, but can anyone tell me if I'm close?

Thanks!
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Already found one mistake, I forgot to attached the wire from the new points to the - on the coil.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Ok, more specific questions here:

First I found a cut wire tucked in this ?fuse? holder. From what I've read, this is for the double relay and it goes to +pos on the coil. Correct?

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Next these three wires, black one is for fan (which is missing) and goes to pos+ on coil. Blue-black one goes to the oil pressure sensor and this green/tan or green/grey one is for something possibly obsolete that I can ignore. Correct?

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Finally, I'm trying to find the 'tan' one that goes to the ECM. There is one tube with two wires that comes from the ECM wire, but they're short and don't reach that far. Are these supposed to plug into something else and then another wire would go from that to the coil?

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Sorry, I hope that's not too much for one post, but I didn't want to lose those braincells....
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

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The double relay is the black plastic relay on the left side of the firewall with the 2 wiring harnesses attached in this picture. The silver thing above it also mounte don the firewall is the series resisters for the FI injectors.

The round thing on the fire wall is the decel valve. It helps keep the engine from backfiring as you go down a hill with your foot off the gas. It basically shuts off the gas via a vacuum when it is not needed. Here is sort of what it looks like when it is all hooked up correctly.

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The missing thing that you only have the bracket for on the firewall is for the charcoal cansiter for gas vapors.

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This black fused connection on the left side of the engine one is for the back up lights...

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If this brown & brown crimp connections are over by the right side of the engine bay, it was for a high altitude gizmo that we did not get on this side of the pond, as we just have the wiring. Don't worry about this one. Keep in mind that all grounds on a bus are either brown wires or bare flat woven wires.

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There should be a tan wire on the engine wiring harness that reaches from the + side of the coil to the ECU. That sends the ECU the 'fire signal" from the points to the FI and tells it when to squirt gas mixture to all of the cylinders at once.

Go over here and start reading up......You are not the first to be in this spot and you won't be the last.

http://www.ratwell.com/
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Thanks Randy, in respect to the fused connection on the driver's side; this link:

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=11660&start=15

says it's "Double Relay, Black from terminal 86c to the in-line fuse, which then splits to the back-up lights and terminal 15 (+ve) on the coil"

The long wire appears to go to the lights. Would it be correct then to assume this cut wire is for the coil?

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Thanks for the link, reading through it now...
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Just us buses
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Welcome to The Samba! A few things trouble me. I wonder why so much was cannibalized from this engine. Have you tried turning it over with a wrench? You might fog or oil the cylinders first if not. If you can spin it by starter, you might try a compression check. Those cylinders are probably dry. Are the spark plugs still in? I would want to drop it and disassemble to check for mouse nests under the tin. Take notes and pictures as you go for ease of assembly. Definitely get a Bentley and or Muir "idiot" book for guidance. Good luck!
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surfbus23
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
Thanks Randy, in respect to the fused connection on the driver's side; this link:

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=11660&start=15

says it's "Double Relay, Black from terminal 86c to the in-line fuse, which then splits to the back-up lights and terminal 15 (+ve) on the coil"

The long wire appears to go to the lights. Would it be correct then to assume this cut wire is for the coil?

Thanks for the link, reading through it now...


This would be correct also according to the Bentley. You need two black wires going in and one going out to the coil. Black wires being the backup lights and the relay.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Found the little bugger:

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This was tested back to the ECM pin 1, so that's one issue down...

Just Us Buses - yes, clearly someone when picking on this engine before I got to it. I can turn it over with the starter, but I just dropped the oil strainer out as it was not even finger tight. I need to change the oil (since there's not much left anyway) and filter.

The fused coil wire is cut really short, in the fuse body. I may have to either replace with a more modern fuse, or try and cut some of the plastic back so that I can get at the end of the wire.

Thanks for all the help so far!
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Randy,

Just reading over this thread and you mentioned that:

"There should be a tan wire on the engine wiring harness that reaches from the + side of the coil to the ECU. That sends the ECU the 'fire signal" from the points to the FI and tells it when to squirt gas mixture to all of the cylinders at once. "

Everything else I've read says that the tan wire to the ECU is on the negative side of the coil.

Can you confirm?
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

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I was wrong. It goes to the neg or "1" side of the coil.

Also go over here to Vintage Bus and put the wiring schematic on a flash drive and take it down to your local print place and have them print it up big and maybe even laminate it. Cheap money well spent. It has the westy wiring diagram also. You want to be able to trace the wire to the wiring track. This will save you countless hours.

http://www.vintagebus.com/wiring/

Also handy to have would be a good pair of open barrel crimpers and some good terminals. Go here and continue reading. I wish I had bought mine 30 years ago.

http://www.xj4ever.com/crimping%20my%20style.pdf
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

How important is the vacuum line from the dist to the fuel regulator, etc? My engine was already missing one and I've been working my way through to try and get it running. I have a working fuel pump and spark. I believe the voltage is right on the injectors, but I still have to verify they're not plugged up somehow. I was thinking that perhaps these vac lines are more important than they seem?

Also, I've changed the oil, as the strainer was loose and it was basically empty. Now I have a leak somewhere under the driver's-side tin and it's leaking onto the exhaust/heater box on that side. Possibly coming from the heads?

Finally, while I'm waiting for an AFM, I put a jumper across the two last pins and the fuel pump kicks in. Can it potentially run without the AFM? Or do I need to jumper it while starting?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

The vacuum lines aren't apt to keep an engine from starting as there is very little vacuum until after the engine starts.

Your oil leak could be a failed oil pressure switch, not a very dependable part. Crying or Very sad

The AFM should trigger the fuel pump relay whenever the flap is opened by incoming air. The fuel pump relay is also activated whenever the engine is being cranked.

Pull the injectors from the left bank and see if they spray when you crank the engine. Short out the coil wire when doing this.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Thanks Wildthings, I will try that. One other thing that I noticed was I am getting 12v on both connections of the injector wires, when compared to ground. Shouldn't it be one side only?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:31 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
Thanks Wildthings, I will try that. One other thing that I noticed was I am getting 12v on both connections of the injector wires, when compared to ground. Shouldn't it be one side only?


When the ignition is on, but the engine isn't running the injectors will have 12v on both sides. With the engine running or at least cranking one side of the injectors should see an intermittent ground.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:14 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

One side intermittent and the other staying at 12v? Ok, I believe they were both moving about when starting, but I will confirm that again. If it is the case, does it indicate something is wired incorrectly?
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