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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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So... Is this a total rebuild? _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:28 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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<crickets> <crickets> _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51144 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:42 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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I'm not sure it qualifies for a "total" rebuild, but the top end shows high time and rough use. The bottom end is strong and may not need much, but from what I see so far I'd splt the case and do some measuring and inspecting iin there to assess.
Aren't you glad you opted to look now?, that valve wouldn't have lasted "a summer or two for local trips" . _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Well, I can't say that I'm 'happy' to find these issues, but it does feel better knowing that it's not going to implode far from home with my young family.
Now to decide which arm/leg to give for a rebuild... _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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tommu Samba Member
Joined: November 15, 2011 Posts: 618 Location: L.A.
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Maybe I missed it, but how do the Cam and lifters look? What's the endplay like? It really would be a shame not to split the case - but once you do that it is going to take your time and money to do it right. Good luck! _________________ |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:45 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Oo.. Missed this one..
Didja look at the bus motor build in my sig?
I'd be gearing up for to take it all apart and see what's up.
Sometimes you can get lucky,
And not have to spend too much coin.
The hard part is done, the rest isn't heavy lifting, just for your wallet.
Heads are expensive; most expensive part, actually.
You might send those to Adrian at Headflow Masters in LA if you are on a budget.
If he will do them; be ready for him to not do them if they are too far gone.
At that point, you can get a set of new AMC heads from any of the regular vendors.
I might be getting a set of 1.7 heads if you go that way,
They have bigger valves, but you will need them cut for your bigger cylinders.
The best is to get new HAM heads from the type4store.com
But be ready to pay...
Like said by these guys above, get it apart, and check the end play.
At this point, you might still be able to save this and that, so disassemble carefully.
You can usually free a cylinder stuck in a head by -very- -carefully- tapping sideways on it with a rubber mallet this way n that.
The John Muir 'Idiot Manual' has some good tips if yo are new to the rebuild game, and writes it all out really well step-by-step that you won't get in the Bentley.
I'd be finding your local automotive machine shop,
And be getting things cleaned up.
Get it all apart,
And get it all clean.
Any V8 shop can also measure cylinders, and maybe measure bearings and/or rebuild rods.
Then take some pics of the cleaned parts, so we can offer a few tidbits.
And save your money...
Sorry that i was right again,
But,
What you are seeing here is perfectly normal.
Par for the course...
You will be WAY better off in the long run if you go clear through it.
There are some great builds on here.
KentPS and riverside66 are a couple that come to mind recently.
If it was easy, all kinds of people would be doing it. _________________ Bus Motor Build
What’s That Noise?!? |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Thanks for the suggestions, at this point I'm getting out of my comfort zone (as far as splitting the case goes). I will be sending this out to be rebuilt by someone who knows what needs to be done. I will update with pics as they come. _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:56 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Here's an update from the rebuilder;
Cylinder #2 was fried, worst he's seen. The crank is good, looks like cam and lifters are trash. Crank and case out for machining. Here's the proof..
_________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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busdaddy Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004 Posts: 51144 Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:51 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Nothing shocking there, looks like the typical used and abused bus motor, good thing you caught it now before it grenaded and there's still some useable parts _________________ Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:24 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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UPDATE: Heads are warped. _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:40 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Just a suggestion....
Usually the 2.0L heads are easily cracked also.
My suggestion would be to just plan on replacing the heads, and the camshaft/lifters combo (you want the camshaft and lifters to have the same Rockwell hardness so you buy them from the same supplier).
If it were me, I would just plan on buying heads with the "improved valve guides" (the improved valve guides contain more zinc in the alloy to actually retain heat longer when you come down the hill so they won't drop into the cylinder). |
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williamM Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008 Posts: 4333 Location: southwest Arizona
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Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Clatter wrote: |
Oo.. Missed this one..
I might be getting a set of 1.7 heads if you go that way,
They have bigger valves, but you will need them cut for your bigger cylinders.
The best is to get new HAM heads from the type4store.com
But be ready to pay...
There are some great builds on here.
KentPS and riverside66 are a couple that come to mind recently.
If it was easy, all kinds of people would be doing it. |
Think you will find the 1700 heads have small valves and it's the 1800 that have the biggest valves, however that comes with a different volume so you need flat tops with that- My 2lts with flat tops and 1800 heads just finished a 1000 mile trip (I know not much) with just the Chinese ele foot adjuster getting loose - reports were the thing had lots of power and decent torque- which could have been improved with the small valve 1700 heads. _________________ some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:38 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Quick update... Parts are back from machining. Reassembly is underway!
In the meantime, brakes continue... slowly...
_________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50347
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:53 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Goach2 wrote: |
Quick update... Parts are back from machining. Reassembly is underway!
In the meantime, brakes continue... slowly...
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Did you replace the three big galley plugs behind the flywheel. They either must be replaced or at least carefully peened in place. |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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I will ask the builder, thanks. _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Peened is the word. _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Goach2 Samba Member
Joined: November 20, 2017 Posts: 522 Location: Niagara Region, Ontario
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 9:30 am Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Hello all,
Been a while since I was on this thread, but I figured I'd rather post to it now, instead of starting a new one.
So my 2.0L Jetronic was completely rebuilt by a local VW resource. Since then, I've only put about 1000kms on it, but have yet to change the oil or filter. The builder was going to come by and walk me through some maintenance, but unfortunately COVID happened and his health is already not very good. I already have the Mele filter and gaskets ready to go and I can change the oil and check the strainer as well. I just wanted to ask the hive if there was anything in particular that I need to check on the first change of a new rebuild?
Also, the fuel economy is terrible, though it doesn't seem to smoke at all. Are there things that can be done to 'dial-in' the engine for optimal performance? I'm assuming I should adjust the valves at this time as well.
All advice is appreciated and welcome! _________________ 1977 FI Westfalia |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Fri Jan 29, 2021 2:30 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Be sure that if you ever pull the oil strainer you NEVER torque the nut to more than 9 ft lbs or permanent damage will occur that will require tearing the engine down again. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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Clatter Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2003 Posts: 7544 Location: Santa Cruz
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Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing |
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Having the motor itself rebuilt is about 61% of the project.
You'll want to make sure the cooling tin that was lost by the PO is all back in place,
And al of the broken/rotten fuel and ignition systems are the correct parts, refurbished, and working correctly.
The Fi system has it's own chapter in the book.
Almost all would have the injectors cleaned and flow-matched (cheap to do).
I'd get a new FI harness from Kyle before doing anything.
You'll need to check every part number, test every component, and seal every air leak.
Get a wideband, learn to use it.
There are a LOT if things you need to do to tune these,
And if it's not tuned right, you'll just kill your new motor.
Sorry to be the curmudgeon again,
But you'll need to continue on.
You're past the halfway point, likely, though..
Usually these motors are killed by a bad tune. _________________ Bus Motor Build
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