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/New-to-Me Engine, what's missing
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
One side intermittent and the other staying at 12v? Ok, I believe they were both moving about when starting, but I will confirm that again. If it is the case, does it indicate something is wired incorrectly?


The "HOT" side of the injectors will see a voltage fluctuating between 6 and 12 volts when the engine is running because of the ballast resisters, while the ground side sees 0 - 12 volts. The manual should give more exact values, but the main thing is that both voltages pulsate.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Ok, I believe that is what I'm getting, but I will test again and then pull the injectors. When you refer to shorting the coil, is that just from #1 to #15? Or should I pull the dist wire from the coil as well?
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

So checked voltages at the injector last night. Both seem to jump around on my digital meter. Not sure if the meter just can't keep up, but it seemed to average around 3.5v on both sides (at least that was the number most seen). I pulled the left side injectors and they were not spraying. I will work through the troubleshooter, checking all wire connections and voltages and we'll go from there. There's pressure in the fuel line, just not sure how much yet.
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jtauxe
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
Hmmm, tune-up kit does look like the way to go, thanks for that. now to try and find one north of the border Smile

www.germansupply.com
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Ok, so I'm working through the AFC-FI-Troubleshooting doc and have a few questions. The fuel testing gauge I have is too old, I will have to get a different one. There is pressure though when I open the port between the left injectors. Anyway, all the voltages seem to be correct, with 12v at the injectors, and pulsing between the two at 3-5v(ish). Although the reading between the injector points themselves is 4.5-5.5 ohms, which is 2 ohms more than the manual says they should be. Could this indicate an issue with the injectors?

When I jumper the 36/39 pins on the AFM plus the 17/32 and 14/16 ECU pins, I get no action from the injectors at all, even though the voltages at the wires seem to be correct. Could it be that both injectors are bad/clogged? Anyway to try and do a quick clean on them to see if they'll spray?

Or is this wait for a new gauge territory?

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

jtauxe wrote:
Goach2 wrote:
Hmmm, tune-up kit does look like the way to go, thanks for that. now to try and find one north of the border Smile

www.germansupply.com

Please check the feedback on German Supply before sending them money.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Also, in addition to my previous post, a question:

With this setup, should the fuel pump shut-off when pressure is reached? Or run on and on?

Thx!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

The pump runs continually so long as the ignition is on and the door in the AFM is open a bit.

I am going to guess that your injectors may be gummed shut from sitting for a long while. If you haven't already done so dump a heavy dose of FI cleaner into the fuel tank and hold the door in the AFM open for several minutes so the pump will move the cleaner through the fuel system. Now go and make yourself some coffee and come back in an hour or so and see if any of the injectors will spray. (The worked well on my 1990 Toyota pickup which had sat for close to ten years) If this doesn't work, try removing them and soaking them in FI cleaner overnight and if that doesn't work hit them with a full 12 volts for a few seconds. You can also mount them in a vise and use a finish nail set and small hammer to lightly tap on the end of the pintles to see if you can pop it loose. The last resort here is to send them in for a professional cleaning.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Send them off to www.cruzinperformance.com for cleaning and calibration. They are over in Michigan someplace.

$100 and send off the cold start valve while you are at it.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

This week's goal is getting them spraying, I will try Wildthing's suggestions. down the road, there may be some professional rebuild in my future Wink
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Injector cleaner in, pump run, now we wait...
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
Injector cleaner in, pump run, now we wait...
Good luck. It will take a while for the cleaner to work its way deep into the injectors, as I said above it has worked for me.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:43 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

So, I'm probably a little impatient, but I had it sitting for a few hours and when energized, still no spray. I tried applying 12v directly to the contacts (which I know how many people hate to see) but still no 'click' or spray. I'm thinking that this may take some manual work to get them unstuck. I know this is not optimal and they should be sent out for rebuild/replacement, but this is only to try and get the engine to run. This bus is nowhere close to being on the road.

With that said, does anyone have any instructions on manually freeing up the injectors? The finish nail and hammer sounds a little bit dangerous. Has anyone been successful in the past with this method?

FYI - My AFM should be delivered today as well, so getting closer to a complete engine.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Goach2 wrote:
So, I'm probably a little impatient, but I had it sitting for a few hours and when energized, still no spray. I tried applying 12v directly to the contacts (which I know how many people hate to see) but still no 'click' or spray. I'm thinking that this may take some manual work to get them unstuck. I know this is not optimal and they should be sent out for rebuild/replacement, but this is only to try and get the engine to run. This bus is nowhere close to being on the road.

With that said, does anyone have any instructions on manually freeing up the injectors? The finish nail and hammer sounds a little bit dangerous. Has anyone been successful in the past with this method?

FYI - My AFM should be delivered today as well, so getting closer to a complete engine.


Remove the injectors, fill their inlet nipples with FI cleaner, set them in a bowl of FI cleaner and let them sit. Tapping them lightly shouldn't hurt much, we are not talking about whaling on them.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Ya, so I bent the pintle on one of the injectors last night. Needless to say, it's really frozen. I'm ordering new injectors from RockAuto. Worst-case scenario I'll send the old ones out for rebuild and have them for extras. Going to take a few weeks for them to come in, so looks like I'll be switching to some electrical work for now.

Good news is that I've managed to get an AFM, air-filter box and charcoal canister, so I can start plumbing those bits in Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

So got the new injectors in today. Got it to fire up for the first time in at least the last 12 years. Still missing the exhaust and I haven't put the intake in on it yet. I can start it with the key, but it dies shortly after disengaging the starter. Most vacuum hoses are still missing, so I'll start collecting them and we'll see if it improves.

Here a link to the video of the first start. Advice welcome as always Smile

https://photos.app.goo.gl/laInvd30sD7EE7q33
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

As far as finding replacements for all the missing vacuum hoses, has anyone purchased a kit, like this:

http://www.germansupply.com/home/customer/product.php?productid=17614

Just curious what's all in it. Not cheap, but might be easier and save some time.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Sorry for the bump, but I'm hoping to order something soon!
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Wasted youth
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Not trying to bash German Supply, but I've never thought buying that kit was a good idea. Just count how many fuel injection clamps you will need and take samples of the fuel and vacuum lines with you to the store. Buy extra footage of each to help you when things go bad, you need to re-work something and when the unexpected happens... you will have some spare tubing.

Make clean cuts with a sharp pair of dikes and make sure you are NOT using the worm-gear/serrated band style clamp. Use Fuel Injeciton clamps. They will do a great job handling the 35 PSIG fuel line pressure, even if the fuel line you get is ASE sized, not metric and is a bit loose.

I have also applied Corbin clamps to vacuum lines. Check that out.

Don't know how things are where you live, but O' Reilly Auto has the correct Gates ethanol-rated fuel injection line and he correct clamps for me. Never had any problems.
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Goach2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: /New-to-Me Engine, what's missing Reply with quote

Thanks WY,

My only issue is that I have no original hoses to bring with me to find replacements... I need pretty much everything as far as vacuum and gas re-circulation goes.
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