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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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Been sketchy a couple of times, once on the Anza park border just east of Laguna mountain close to Oriflame rd. and the gold mines.
But the scary time was on the cobble rocks just north of Pine Valley, That was the stupid one that could of gone south really quickly on us. Just very very lucky that we got hung up and stopped on those marbles headed down! It would have been a very quick trip to the canyon floor as brakes and low gears were of no use on the loose ballbearing like rocks. Had a heck of a time on hands and knees snaking the cable up the hill... It was a very scary couple hours getting out of that one. And it was just as the sun was setting.
That as we use to say could of been the ultimate and final E Ticket ride!
Another time i remember but everyone was packing winches was on the Milling Ranch close to the observatory on the back way into Mikes Sky Rancho in Baja. LOL Oh the memories and stupid lessons learned. 
Im really looking forward to the Thing and for the most part can envision getting stuck in the sand or on a rock somewhere. Someday im going to run across an affordable LSD and thats when I will get in trouble with the Thing! LOL
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:37 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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Haha. That does look like a cowcatcher!
Does the steep hill you mentioned earlier happen to be at Anza Borrego? |
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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Wow I found one! But not quite what I had envisioned? Bet the train looks funny without its bumper?
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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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LOL Capt. Yeah think that is where im headed. I took the winch off of the Jeep this weekend along with the bumper I made for it. Im thinking seriously about doing some whittling on this bumper and mounting it all on the front of the thing instead of inside as discussed earlier. It will be easy to tie the bumper mounting surface plate to the cage when i tackle that. I havent found any pics anywhere of a thing sporting a winch hanging out front. i will make it (the bumper) removable with a second light weight bumper avaliable if the winch wont be needed...
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Captain Spalding
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| Metal Twister wrote: |
| There has been a few times in the 4x4's where we have started down a steep grade then decided that it was probably not the best choice so backing up the trail was required. The lead vehicle (the only one with a winch) would let out the winch cable from the front mounted winch and fish it under the axles to the second vehicle further up the hill. |
I can imagine doing that once, but I consider that in the category of getting caught with my pants down, and would take steps to not be in that situation a second time. There's a lot that can go wrong.
| Quote: |
| Hopefully i wouldnt be caught in a situation like this in the Thing as it was extreme 4x4'ing .. But who knows? Maybe the receiver thing would work better? |
I don't think I've ever seen the receiver mounted winch used in front for recovery. I can't imagine they take side loading very well. I've only seen them used on the rear to supplement a conventional front winch in situations like the one you described. I think Sam's setup is very stealthy and all, but if I were a fabricator like you are I wouldn't be trying to reinvent the wheel. I'd just make a proper winch bumper, tie it into the front beam with a skid plate and call it good. |
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Metal Twister
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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There has been a few times in the 4x4's where we have started down a steep grade then decided that it was probably not the best choice so backing up the trail was required. The lead vehicle (the only one with a winch) would let out the winch cable from the front mounted winch and fish it under the axles to the second vehicle further up the hill. Then the winch was activated pulling the jeep backwards up the hill. Not the best thing for the cable but it did work and got us out of a few binds. If this was anticipated it would be easy to place a couple fairleads or pulleys under the vehicle just for this purpose. Hopefully i wouldnt be caught in a situation like this in the Thing as it was extreme 4x4'ing .. But who knows? Maybe the receiver thing would work better?
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
| You could certainly buy one of those locking pins to help secure the winch/platform. |
I'm not so much worried about the winch being stolen. I just wouldn't want to be bombing around on dunes or a fire road with that thing hanging off the front or back. And if you take it off, what do you do with it, see? Maybe if you plan to build a rear hitch anyway you could build one with two receivers: one facing backwards, for times when the winch is in use, and one pointing upwards, so you'd have a place to store it when not in use. |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
Posts: 5688
Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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You could certainly buy one of those locking pins to help secure the winch/platform.
I suppose it wouldn't be a guarantee, but I kinda figure that the locks keep the honest people honest, and the not-honest people are going to steal my stuff anyway, unless there is something to slow them down and move on to easier targets.
My Golf and two Buses all have rear hitches. I haven't gotten to building the rear hitch for the Thing yet. I also intend to build front hitches for the Buses, but again haven't had the time do to it yet.
Hence, if I get a winch, it'll be a hitch-mounted variety.
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President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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Captain Spalding
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Joined: February 19, 2005
Posts: 2519
Location: . . . in denial.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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A few random thoughts:
Whether the winch is worth it or not is really a question of how much trouble you plan on getting yourself into. If the answer is "not that much" there are cheaper good alternatives. First, a couple of strips of indoor-outdoor carpet are helpful, used in front of the back wheels like a sand ladder. Shovel out a ramp in front of the rear wheels and lay the carpet strips down. Then use a come-a-long and a synthetic winch rope to tie off to an anchor/tree/other vehicle, use the come-a-long to winch your back wheels onto the carpet strips, and then drive yourself out of your predicament.
The great thing about the receiver mounted winch platform is that it can be used at the front or rear if both your bumpers have receivers. The downsides are that they affect your approach/departure angles, and you may find yourself stuck in a way that makes the winch difficult to mount. Also, you don't want to drive around with the winch hanging off the bumper, so you have to store it in the vehicle. That's a pretty heavy missile to have bouncing around.
Not enough praise can be heaped on the humble recovery strap for simplicity and convenience. Of course its usefulness depends on the help of a good Samaritan. |
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vwwestyman
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Joined: April 24, 2004
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| Metal Twister wrote: |
| Oh I get it. Im just the oppisite though... I need it to function well and looks are way down the list of concerns. Not to say i dont want it to look good as well. Heck im hiding my winch out of sight never to be seen again... LOL. |
Well I guess on occasion if I chose to go off-roading it could be needed. And I would love to be able to do this more often, especially in the Thing. But what I really have to be honest about is that my chances to actually do that are very rare so that is what tips the scale to "not that necessary."
Last summer I really wished I had a winch in my Bus when I decided to drive it at the off-road park. Would have been fine except it had rained most of the day, and the park is next to an Army Corp lake, so the lowlands of the park are silt and it was very muddy and sticky!
That was a super-dumb move.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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Oh I get it. Im just the oppisite though... I need it to function well and looks are way down the list of concerns. Not to say i dont want it to look good as well. Heck im hiding my winch out of sight never to be seen again... LOL.
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vwwestyman
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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Oh nice! I didn't think of a plate to bolt a winch to, I had just seen one made to mount on a hitch receiver.
A winch is somewhere on my wish list (winch list?) but because i have to admit it is more for show/cool factor than necessity, it is down the list a ways. So I haven't really researched it yet.
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Dave Cook
President, Wild Westerner Club
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| vwwestyman wrote: |
Here's what I built to be able to attach things to the front bumper. This post is where I started building it, scroll down for a couple improvements.
Part of why I added the hitch was I imagined one day I will get around to buying a winch and I'd get one that could insert into a hitch mount for flexibility/transfer-ability to more than one vehicle.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8573181#8573181 |
Looks great... I saw this winch plate at HF and for $58.00 i dont think you could make it for that?
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vwwestyman
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sam_w
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Joined: March 07, 2002
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Location: Petaluma, CA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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The typ 181 was originally created as a military vehicle for the Bundeswehr.
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| sam_w wrote: |
| yes, in mud, you don't get stuck with one wheel spinning. BTW all NATO Things have ZF LSD's |
This a new topic to me "NATO THINGS" guess I had better start doing some searching. Never knew they used things. Many of then state side?
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sam_w
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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yes, in mud, you don't get stuck with one wheel spinning. BTW all NATO Things have ZF LSD's
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Metal Twister
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Joined: January 24, 2013
Posts: 405
Location: licking, MO.
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:31 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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| sam_w wrote: |
i keep the motor running when I use the winch, so I don't feel the need for an extra battery.
I got the winch to pull myself out of problems, so plan on powering as well, and I do have a Quaile LSD.
Has anyone pulled themselves out of soft sand with a plow anchor? |
Never a plow anchor but a couple of times the spare tire was burried as deep as the Jeep and i successfully freed myself. After those experiences the spare is all I need to have. No need to drag around extra weight that isnt going to be used that often. Not to speak of the room it takes up. Im planning on board air which is light and compact enough to justify having it. That way I can air down when needed. One of the keys to sand is airing down to to least 10 lbs or so and more if required.
So how much of a difference does that LSD make off road? Well worth the $1200.00 dollars or so im guessing?
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sam_w
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| Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Winch mounting... Beam mount or bumper mount tie in? |
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i keep the motor running when I use the winch, so I don't feel the need for an extra battery.
I got the winch to pull myself out of problems, so plan on powering as well, and I do have a Quaile LSD.
Has anyone pulled themselves out of soft sand with a plow anchor?
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