ABA Swap Coolant Hose Idea

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

edit: drawing deleted. Will post better one soon.

Unless I missed some details, the main stumbling block would be sourcing the three "T's" shown. They don't seem to be a common size!

Oil cooler could be positioned the same as the diesel Vanagon cooler. 038 121 132C flange; I don't know which way that part fits. i.e. would 1-1/4" outlet point toward driver side? (wrong way). The smallest outlet would be blocked off. OEM tube from head would go to coolant bottle.

Not shown; short piece of 1" hose from pump to 037 122 058

The idea is (was?) to try and use mostly FLAPS "off the shelf" parts. BUT..... the T's might have to be custom made so for most folks, that makes the idea moot.

Ideas, thoughts are most welcome.


edit: I won't be using this type of flange.


Images of Mk4 flange at head that *should* fit. My thought is that using a flange with the outlet at 90º to head might open options for molded rad hose choices.

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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[h00drat]

Following

Happy to experiment with any of these ideas on my swap.
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<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
Auto Trans Rebuild - Image Gallery

[Vanagon Nut]

Go for it!

Ya, it's possible the T's could be made from copper, and I have been running copper junctions in my other ABA w/o issue that I can see, but the T's are the challenge.

I may try to weld some up. Likely more work than its worth?
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Tbob]

I have made unusual "tees" and "els" with different sizes using copper plumbing fittings, sweat soldered together. I used this when I converted my 80 to watercooled(and to a 3.8 Ford V6), and someone made a cool h-fitting for my 85 1.9. A good plumbing supply house (not just a home improvement store) will have many sizes and both standard and "street", which solders inside another fitting, for a greater range of sizes. If you want a ridge on the end of the fitting for the hose clamp to not slip off, you can solder a copper wire around the circumference of the base of the fitting. I would like to have pictures but I don't have the technology to take digital pictures. P.S. the watercooled conversion worked, the 3.8 liter Ford V6 did not.
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1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks tBob. Great tip on plumbing terms and on the copper wire. On my currently running swap, I just double clamped unions etc that didn't have a bead for hose. I would not do double clamp again. Not optimal.

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

So it seems the Mk4 2.0 also uses this coolant flange. The larger outlet would point towards the Vanagon long pipes. The smallest nipple looks like its for the heater core (5/8"). I'm assuming it would be ok to just cap the 3rd outlet with a hose, slug/bolt, and clamp. There is only one spot for a sensor but I'm assuming the Motronic 4 pin sensor will fit there.

from a vw vortex thread. Looking at flywheel end of head:

To me this outlet looks the same as ABA outlet

Pretty sure this shows a 2.0 AEG. It's an 8V 2.0 regardless.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Tbob]

On that plastic flange, I have had multiple failures with the aftermarket flanges. Techtronics provided me with OEM ones that stand the test of time. I was amazed at the quick failure of the aftermarket ones. YMMV, but no more aftermarket plastic flanges for me.
_________________
1969 Deluxe, owned since 1973
1973 Westfalia, owned since 1983
1980 Westfalia, watercooled conversion
1985 Westfalia, stock!
1986 Westfakia, Audi I-4 conversion
A couple of trucks and a couple of Jeeps

[Vanagon Nut]

[82westyrabbit]

Hi Neil. If you need adapters to for your tee fittings and to change hose sizes google jags that run. They do jaguar engine conversions. They have all kinds off cooling system adapters and tee fittings. Good luck

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks westyrabbit. I see:

http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Cooling-System-Parts_Order.html

Theres also hits for other hot rod type websites. Part of my goal, as usual, is to see what the "every person" could find or make but IF this hose confabulation is feasible, paying a little for nicely made T's would be worth it.

I'll probably end up welding up some galvanized barbed nipples. (I will grind off the top coat and hold my breath. But really, the gas/smoke off galvanized is dangerous)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_fume_fever#Cause

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

edit; assuming one makes a T to fit this hose.....

I'll measure but it seems that getting a 1.5" ID hose for long pipe to T from head isn't hard to do.

just an example:

Gates 21794
20.5" center line length

I get web hits for this hose at major FLAPS vendors. e.g. O Reilly It doesn't appear to be an obscure piece.

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/gates-3728/belt...4/4328007.

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

The L shaped or similar hoses listed below should allow T on hose from ABA head coolant flange to remain at 1.25" x 1.25" x 1" and should allow that T outlet to transition to the 1.5" Vanagon long pipe flowing to radiator. (pipe closest to firewall)

Double check numbers and images as there may be discrepancies online; some images made it hard to discern which end of hose had the larger ID. Please note any glaring errors

If the Gates part number showed multiple vendors, it got chosen. Most of these hoses likely need to be cut, most put bend rearward (closer to engine) of firewall.

For "VW" purists Jegs shows Gates 21086 for mid 90's VR Passat. (but mostly for 80's Dodge so.....)

Neil.

20701
1.25” x 1.55” 14.2” centreline

20706
1.25” x 1.5” 20.2" centreline. ODD SHAPE

20855
1.25” x 1.5” 16.3” centreline. U bend off pipe then toward engine. Too short?

20995
1.25” x 1.56” 36.5" centreline. Odd application. Old Caddy? Bend from long pipe more than 90º but bends to 1.25” end may suffice

21086
1.25” x 1.5” 10.7” centreline. Nice bend from long pipe. Puts T in bad spot?? Nice looking otherwise. Many applications listed.

21087
1.25” x 1.5” 19.3” centreline. Kind of a Z bend. Cut short. Lots of 80’s 90’s applications

21103
1.25” x 1.5” 15.7” centreline. Good L shape but short. Only see one application.

21272
1.25” x 1.5” 15.6” centreline. “ok” L shape but more than 90º bend. Puts T further toward rear.

21334
1.26” x 1.5’ 27.2” centreline. Nice sort of U shape but smaller end might be too high.

21441
1.25” x 1.5” 30.5" centreline. Looks like it would provide nice L IF bigger ID at short end of L. Lots of Suburban GM applications.

21558 1.25” x 1.5” 22.9” centreline. 1999 Jeep application. Possibly locates T in front of firewall

21587 1.25” x 1.5” 13.7” centreline. Nice short L. Lots of mid 80’s applications.

21609
1.25’ x 1.5” 18” centreline. Nice short L. Puts hose rearward of firewall.

22001
1.25” x 1.5” 16.2” centreline. Really nice looking tight L. Same as above. Quite a few Dodge/Chrylser applications.

Gates 21086 from Jegs. Might be VW 3A0121051E

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[h00drat]

What's the real advantage to your method vs. this method - https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=651652&highlight=aba

??

Just trying to use off the shelf parts?

The hoses in the above thread cost me a total of $130.

Are are you trying to create a BETTER way of doing it?
_________________
<<Tyler>>
1987.5 Wolfsburg Weekender / CHC / 2.0 ABA
CHC Top Thread
Engine Conversion Thread (2.0 ABA Swap)
ABA Swap - Image Gallery
Auto Trans Rebuild - Image Gallery

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

Also, and with ALL due respect to Ian, as I'm sure he went to some trouble to get and prove the info he posted, to my eye, it appears that when compared to the older ABA cooling system hoses, the coolant path out at end of head appears to be reduced in ID from 1.25" to 0.75". I could be totally wrong but wouldn't that slow down the rate of coolant getting sent to the radiator?

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

These images obviously show a "dry fit" of parts but should work. But.... as mentioned, this all depends on quality of the T's I weld up using threaded pipe. (I'd guess its one thing to weld a bracket but something else to weld up a fitting carrying fluids under pressure even at ~ 15 PSI. I know some have had custom welded oil pans that weep slightly). I decided not to use the zinc plated barbed unions; IIRC, they have a slightly thicker wall. I found the 1/2" threaded pipe nipple ID to be only slightly narrower than the ID on a generic plastic male x male 5/8" automotive coolant hose union.

Gates hoses off coolant pump should work well. The "lower" one clears the diesel bracket arm.

To put oil cooler in this position, to be safe, I clearance about 1.5 mm off oil cooler bracket and used hex head bolts at bracket to block. Though the cooler *just* fit w/o the clearancing, I found I had to hold it upwards to get that clearance. I checked clearance with grease. Not too happy with red hose fit as it bulges a bit at cooler nipple but it should last for a while. I'd ordered a Gates 90º moulded hose but it didn't show up so.... I used one VW hose on "lower" plastic manifold to oil cooler. Image shows one new and one used manifold. The Vanagon heater return hose will run to a T that will also connect to coolant expansion bottle bottom outlet then from there to the "lower" plastic manifold at coolant pump. IOW it should be a straight shot from heater hose to plastic manifold nipple.

I'll make a T to run a hose (arrow) to VW plastic manifold. Return hose from radiator will probably be 1.5" to union reduced to 1.25" then to pump. I'd use marine type hose for that. IIRC, there might be a 1.5" x 1.25" flex hose thats long enough but I'm not a big fan of that type of hose (with metal coil).

_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA

1988 West DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[danfromsyr]

that's NOT how you want to plumb your oil cooler..

you need to connect that red hose to the water coming out from the head instead. it's a constant flow..


you have it connected to both returning lines ..
the only OUT flow line is off the back of the cylinder head..
the 3 lines available at the water pump are flow return lines.
middle one from the heater core circuit (constant flow)
upper one from the Cylinder head for when the T-stat is closed...
lower T-stat cover hose is from Radiator for when T-stat opens..

though VW used some variation where it's plumbed into the T-stat radiator return line. that isn't my preferred method.
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[Vanagon Nut]

[Vanagon Nut]

Folks. If I'm still wrong on this, please correct me. I've posted another image showing same thing. Hopefully it clarifies things.

Thanks

Neil.