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Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone?
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mascrappo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

I have a bone stock 73 and have toyed with installing a Mexican oil pump/filter combo. An older friend of mine, who worked on countless bugs/vans back in the 70's, and is also a 40+ year aviation mechanic, said don't bother and to just change the oil more often if I'm that concerned. His reasoning is it's only 2.5 quarts of oil, and diesel oil is cheap enough. While I can't disagree with it, I like the oil filter possibility. He also echoed the words of wisdom, "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
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volksworld
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

even though its stock its still 35 yrs old and odds are very good its been rebuilt at least once....and may no longer have the correct dish cam to mate with the new mexican pump...and you wont find out till you have it apart....and most oil pump pullers require you to pull the muffler...i think i'd leave well enough alone for now
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mascrappo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

volksworld wrote:
even though its stock its still 35 yrs old and odds are very good its been rebuilt at least once....and may no longer have the correct dish cam to mate with the new mexican pump...and you wont find out till you have it apart....and most oil pump pullers require you to pull the muffler...i think i'd leave well enough alone


Thanks, yes leave it alone keeps coming up. Maybe just buy one for later when rebuild time comes along...
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

having a filter is a great idea. it is proven to increase engine life in regards to wear. oil capacity is not the issue, the lack of filtration is. However condider a given two identical engines, except one has a 2.5 quart oil capacity, and the other 6 quarts. Lets say both engines introduce the same, say 0.05 gm of wear materials to the sump, which one has the most contaminated oil. Small sump size wont help, more feequent oil changes can, but it the inbetween the oil change times when that tiny sump of oil builds up contamonates, and around they go, circulating thru one very sad little motor.

Filtration is a highly effective and cost economic way of greatly reducing engine wear, many studies prove this, a small sump engine is no different.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Diesel oils don't have the correct additive packages for our engines. Their zinc is excellent but the detergent properties are wrong for an engine without an oil filter

Filtration is overrated. Source: I took my engine apart with 30,000 miles on it and the main bearings were so tight I reused them… Didn't even hone the cylinders or touch the rings. Everything measured as new, but I DID but new rod bearings in because I got a free set.

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Brian
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

asiab3 wrote:
Filtration is overrated.


I strongly disagree. I know why a filter is good. You know a filter is good. We both know why they're good, but to be honest I have not seen posted results on longevity.
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

I run an oil filter/pump on both my VWs. CB Maxi2. Over 35 years now on my 1835cc engine, almost a year on my 1600cc engine.
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Floating VW
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:35 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Are there really people out there who don't believe filtering their engine's oil is important?

I had a filter/pump for years on my old mill. It did its job and worked well. They're also cheap, well-made and easy to install. I see absolutely no down-side to using one.

P.S. I've met a few A&P mechanics over the years, and while they do know their business, their advice can be a little suspect at times. The TBO's of the engines they work on are A LOT shorter than what most people would expect to get out of a standard automobile engine, so they tend not to think of "longevity" in the same terms as you or I might. You kind of have to take what they say with a grain of salt. I've also met a lot of old wrenches from the 70's; the same rule applies to them, as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

I've thought about adding an oil filter set-up to my bug. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I've a '71 Super, stock engine, with an aftermarket degree pulley(if that matters).
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Last edited by joey1320 on Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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volksworld
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

are there people out there that dont believe that filtering their oil is important....yes, vw engineers from the 40's to about 2000 when their hydraulic lifters gave them problems....the design of the sump and oil strainer allow heavier particulates to sink to the bottom and not get picked up....most full flow systems out there with big pumps are probably running with the bypass in the filter open untill the oil heats up and thins out, and maybe at hi rpm too unless they're running a pressure relief style pump cover....is an oil filter a good idea? of course it is...but the question here was weather or not to put a mexi pump on a running engine.... its kinda like quitting smoking when you're 70...the damage has already been done...the problem with us "wrenches from the 70's" it that we've been through all this before and realize the can of worms that can be opened when trying to do a simple modification...p.s. a magnetic drain plug certainly wouldnt hurt...oh and i've also had a fresh rebuild seize because a brand new scat pump/filter was machined too small and sucked air on the pickup side....my own damn fault cause i was bench running it without the oil light hooked up
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

joey1320 wrote:
I've thought about adding an oil filter set-up to my bug. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I've a '71 Super with a stick engine with an aftermarket degree pulley(if that matters).


Joey - I do like the CB Maxi2. However, I need to state that the factory engine from my 1971 Super Convertible actually had a flat cam gear in it, so I had to order the Maxi2 for that one (so my own engine was different than in the diagram below). I've had that 1971 since mid-1970s, engine had never been out or split EVER, so in your place I'd either wait until I could check (can take off the pump cover and pull out the gear with the shaft, and measure the shaft) or pull the entire oil pump and then see the camshaft gear.

Or order both and return the one that won't fit.

After installing this, you'll find that your sump plate and metal screen are always clean too !!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Flat cam gear http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1791.htm
Dished cam gear http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1792.htm
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joey1320
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:38 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
joey1320 wrote:
I've thought about adding an oil filter set-up to my bug. Anyone care to point me in the right direction? I've a '71 Super with a stick engine with an aftermarket degree pulley(if that matters).


Joey - I do like the CB Maxi2. However, I need to state that the factory engine from my 1971 Super Convertible actually had a flat cam gear in it, so I had to order the Maxi2 for that one (so my own engine was different than in the diagram below). I've had that 1971 since mid-1970s, engine had never been out or split EVER, so in your place I'd either wait until I could check (can take off the pump cover and pull out the gear with the shaft, and measure the shaft) or pull the entire oil pump and then see the camshaft gear.

Or order both and return the one that won't fit.

After installing this, you'll find that your sump plate and metal screen are always clean too !!!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Flat cam gear http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1791.htm
Dished cam gear http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1792.htm



Thanks for the info Cusser. I'll save this for future reference.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

CB Maxi filter pump does not play well with a stock muffler that has the return heater tube for the intake on the left side, well the pump fits, the filter doesn't, found that out the hard way.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

busman78 wrote:
CB Maxi filter pump does not play well with a stock muffler that has the return heater tube for the intake on the left side, well the pump fits, the filter doesn't, found that out the hard way.


Was it diameter of the filter or it's length? If it was the length of it, could a shorter filter work?
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busman78
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Length, even tracked down one of Fram's (spit when you say that word) mini filters, they make one that is like 3" long, will not fit.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

I use a shorter filter L14670 or PH16 with the Maxi2, don't have clearance issues with my quiet-exhaust headers. Yes, I did have to grind down the cover a little on both so the tin would not rub on the crankshaft pulley, as others have reported, but that's a one-time thing (CB should really get with the manufacturer and get this part corrected).

There are numerous topics about which brand of oil filter are "better" than others, but filter factories typically re-brand filters so many brands are produced by the same manufacturer.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Cusser, I remember reading your issue with the fitment and having to grind down the vanes.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

Here is a picture of the offending tube that keeps the Maxi Pump from being used. Headers do not cause an issue, just the stock tube is in the way.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

volksworld wrote:
. . . the problem with us "wrenches from the 70's" is that . . .

Alright, I just want to say that I meant no offense to any of the "old farts" on this forum (I'm actually very impressed you all have managed to live this long!). Actually, I should be careful what I say, since I guess I don't have too many years left before I join the club, myself.

But seriously, I was just trying to imply that a thing is not always "correct" simply because someone with experience said it was, nor is a thing always "incorrect" simply because it was said by a complete idiot. In fact, lately it seems that whenever I hear someone say, "Listen to me because I have 30 years of experience," more often than not, that just means they've spent the last 30 years doing it wrong!

Also, a lot of what the Holy German Engineers did (or didn't) do was based more on keeping costs down than actually improving performance or longevity. I believe not putting an oil filtration system on the Type 1 engine until it was absolutely necessary is a good example of this.

Cusser wrote:
After installing this, you'll find that your sump plate and metal screen are always clean too !!!

Now, this is something I can get behind. I have noticed this same phenomenon on my machine, as well. To me, that is all the "proof" anyone should ever need, if they weren't convinced already, that is.
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Last edited by Floating VW on Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Brian
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:48 am    Post subject: Re: Mexican oil pump worth it or leave it alone? Reply with quote

busman78 wrote:
Here is a picture of the offending tube that keeps the Maxi Pump from being used. Headers do not cause an issue, just the stock tube is in the way.


Yea, EMPI made a pump for that
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1991252
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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