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dgsaz Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008 Posts: 579 Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: Distributor Change |
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Here's what I'm running now:
1776
All parts balanced
Stock polished and balanced crank
Stock cam
L-3 Heads ACN 35/32
Stock lifters
1 3/8 header
Built as a long distance hauler.
And............an old 1990's 009 Distributor. I found the reciept from the PO. He bought it from Gene Berg.
I have had the distributor on every engine configuration 1500 sp, 1600 sp, 1776 sp and now on the current configuration, 1776 dp.
The 009 has always served me well and I have no real complaints. Just the question, "can I do better"? It's 27 years old, has Pertronix electronic points.
I'm a bit hesitant to trust it on a 3600 mile trip next summer.
So with that said, should I stick with the 009 or look into another distributor?
Thanks all,
dgsaz |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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CN performance magnaspark 2. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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tattooed_pariah Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2006 Posts: 2047 Location: El Cajon, CA
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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If it works well and has given you no problems, why not continue trusting it? If you want to change, change it, but half your post sounds like you like it, and the other half sounds like it's becoming a headache..
For what it's worth, I ran a plain 009 with points for about 6 years in a 1776, including a handful of trips to/from san diego to san jose (about 400 miles each way) and one trip from san jose to bend Oregon (don't remember miles, but it was 15 hours driving time at about 65-80mph..) and back with no problems at all.
It was my daily driver that whole time, but those were the big trips I took with no hesitation about whether or not it would get me home.. _________________ -pariah (just a novice from "that other VW site")
'72 Volksrod "Effigy"
"Never worry about stepping on people's toes. People who get their toes stepped on are either sitting down, or standing still on the job."
-Admiral Arleigh Burke, USN(ret.) |
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dgsaz Samba Member
Joined: November 04, 2008 Posts: 579 Location: Phoenix / San Diego
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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tattooed_pariah wrote: |
If it works well and has given you no problems, why not continue trusting it? If you want to change, change it, but half your post sounds like you like it, and the other half sounds like it's becoming a headache..
For what it's worth, I ran a plain 009 with points for about 6 years in a 1776, including a handful of trips to/from san diego to san jose (about 400 miles each way) and one trip from san jose to bend Oregon (don't remember miles, but it was 15 hours driving time at about 65-80mph..) and back with no problems at all.
It was my daily driver that whole time, but those were the big trips I took with no hesitation about whether or not it would get me home.. |
I just wonder if I can do better.........it's the only distributor I've ever used.
The 009 seems to be the most "bad mouthed" unit available. There are fans and critics.
I am curious if I can get better overall performance from a different distributor. |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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dgsaz wrote: |
tattooed_pariah wrote: |
If it works well and has given you no problems, why not continue trusting it? If you want to change, change it, but half your post sounds like you like it, and the other half sounds like it's becoming a headache..
For what it's worth, I ran a plain 009 with points for about 6 years in a 1776, including a handful of trips to/from san diego to san jose (about 400 miles each way) and one trip from san jose to bend Oregon (don't remember miles, but it was 15 hours driving time at about 65-80mph..) and back with no problems at all.
It was my daily driver that whole time, but those were the big trips I took with no hesitation about whether or not it would get me home.. |
I just wonder if I can do better.........it's the only distributor I've ever used.
The 009 seems to be the most "bad mouthed" unit available. There are fans and critics.
I am curious if I can get better overall performance from a different distributor. |
Yes you can. I switched from a Bosch 010(the holy grail..hahaha) to a cb magnaspark. World of difference. Engine runs much smoother...idles smoother.....almost like a different engine. Gas mileage has also noticeably increased. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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We ran a "ready to run" magnaspark kit on our class 11 car in this past baja 1000, 1134 miles in the absolute worst conditions known, no problems at all. 57 hours(we got stuck in the silt too many times) straight, poor engine was screaming for all of it without one misfire. I challange any othe ignition "kit" on the market to do this. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3462 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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mcmscott wrote: |
We ran a "ready to run" magnaspark kit on our class 11 car in this past baja 1000, 1134 miles in the absolute worst conditions known, no problems at all. 57 hours(we got stuck in the silt too many times) straight, poor engine was screaming for all of it without one misfire. I challange any othe ignition "kit" on the market to do this. |
Scott, you have you tried the digital or black box? _________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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Pruneman99 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2012 Posts: 5013 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Never heard of a GB 009 but I don't doubt you. I'm sure it's a quality unit, and there is nothing wrong with a 009 per se. The issue is with all the crap 009's on the market that ain't worth a crap. I have a Bosch 009 that I ran for years. It was paired with a bocar PICT 34 and that's not really a good match, but it was fine. I bet if it was a Chinese knockoff 009, it would have a flat spot to hell as others have reported.
With your duals, a quality 009 is fine. Would a 010 or a 019 give you a better curve? Maybe, maybe not over a GB 009. There most likely would be SOME gain, but it might be minimal.
But after 27 years, maybe it's time to rebuild your distributor with new felt washers, clean, re-lube, and reset end play. If the distributor has huge amounts of end play it can cause timing scatter and hamper performance.
If you've already set $$$ aside for it, one of Glenn's 010's or 019's might be nice. Then there is always crank fire. How happy are you with your performance and how much $$$ do you want to spend experimenting? |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Pruneman99 wrote: |
Never heard of a GB 009 but I don't doubt you. I'm sure it's a quality unit, and there is nothing wrong with a 009 per se. The issue is with all the crap 009's on the market that ain't worth a crap. I have a Bosch 009 that I ran for years. It was paired with a bocar PICT 34 and that's not really a good match, but it was fine. I bet if it was a Chinese knockoff 009, it would have a flat spot to hell as others have reported.
With your duals, a quality 009 is fine. Would a 010 or a 019 give you a better curve? Maybe, maybe not over a GB 009. There most likely would be SOME gain, but it might be minimal.
But after 27 years, maybe it's time to rebuild your distributor with new felt washers, clean, re-lube, and reset end play. If the distributor has huge amounts of end play it can cause timing scatter and hamper performance.
If you've already set $$$ aside for it, one of Glenn's 010's or 019's might be nice. Then there is always crank fire. How happy are you with your performance and how much $$$ do you want to spend experimenting? |
You can get the magnaspark 2 ready to run kit.....distributor, wires, coil, coil mount.....for a couple hundred dollars less than a Glen Ring 010 or 019. And have a smoother running engine with no timing scatter which is inherently built in to those other distributors due to their small cap....and the cap moves no matter how tight you get the clips. _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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jpaull wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
We ran a "ready to run" magnaspark kit on our class 11 car in this past baja 1000, 1134 miles in the absolute worst conditions known, no problems at all. 57 hours(we got stuck in the silt too many times) straight, poor engine was screaming for all of it without one misfire. I challange any othe ignition "kit" on the market to do this. |
Scott, you have you tried the digital or black box? |
Haven't tried the black box, I do have a digital on a friends turbo car. I really have mixed feelings on phasing the dist 60 degrees for it to work. Also in Baja I wanted to use something that I felt was solid, after this trip I really think the rtr kit is a no frills system that you can't hurt. _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76911 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
You can get the magnaspark 2 ready to run kit.....distributor, wires, coil, coil mount.....for a couple hundred dollars less than a Glen Ring 010 or 019. And have a smoother running engine with no timing scatter which is inherently built in to those other distributors due to their small cap....and the cap moves no matter how tight you get the clips. |
Not sure where you get the idea that the small cap is the cause of timing scatter.
When i rebuild a distributor there is no scatter. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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fivelugshortaxle Samba Member
Joined: May 13, 2011 Posts: 4254 Location: Aumsville, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Glenn wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
You can get the magnaspark 2 ready to run kit.....distributor, wires, coil, coil mount.....for a couple hundred dollars less than a Glen Ring 010 or 019. And have a smoother running engine with no timing scatter which is inherently built in to those other distributors due to their small cap....and the cap moves no matter how tight you get the clips. |
Not sure where you get the idea that the small cap is the cause of timing scatter.
When i rebuild a distributor there is no scatter. |
There is scatter at high rpm's with the small cap. Can't quite remember quite where I read that, but the info is out there. Google _________________ Good things come to those who wait.
2332 with lots of goodies....
Rotating assembly balanced by Brothers VW
4340 84mm crank
AA 94mm p&c' s
Total seal 2nd ring, rest are Grants
5.5 h beams
Magnum straight cuts
Steve Long XR310 on a 106
CB 1.4 rockers
CB Magnaspark 2 distributor
NGK D7ea plugs
A1 lowdown 1 3/4 with single muffler
Dellorto 48's with 40 venturies
Kennedy Stage 2 with Daiken disc |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Glenn wrote: |
fivelugshortaxle wrote: |
You can get the magnaspark 2 ready to run kit.....distributor, wires, coil, coil mount.....for a couple hundred dollars less than a Glen Ring 010 or 019. And have a smoother running engine with no timing scatter which is inherently built in to those other distributors due to their small cap....and the cap moves no matter how tight you get the clips. |
Not sure where you get the idea that the small cap is the cause of timing scatter.
When i rebuild a distributor there is no scatter. |
You charge more for an antiquated points dist. than a complete system? If that is for a vintage thing ,I get it, but to compare it to a complete system? Totally different arena _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76911 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Not comparing it, just saying that small caps do not scatter more than larger.
And if you are talking about antiquated, you can buy a V8 crate engine for less than a performance air cooled VW engine. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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mcmscott wrote: |
We ran a "ready to run" magnaspark kit on our class 11 car in this past baja 1000, 1134 miles in the absolute worst conditions known, no problems at all. 57 hours(we got stuck in the silt too many times) straight, poor engine was screaming for all of it without one misfire. I challange any othe ignition "kit" on the market to do this. |
This makes me feel better about the system.
I had Glenn rebuild my 019, never had scatter issues with it. A small cap would cause scatter if the small cap wasn't clamped down. Been there, done that. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15303 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Why do you want to fix something that is not broken. Your real Bosch 009 is fine. All the 009 badmouthing is about the shitty Chinese copies, not the real deal like you have. Don't buy into the collectable and nostalgic value of the 010 & 019 unless you have a show car and are only after the bling. You might notice a little bit in the lower RPM city street driving range, but you will not get any more power driving down the highway by switching distributors. At highway cruising speeds all distributors are at max advance and do the same thing. You will get better MPG with a SVDA, but the good Mexican 034 are NLA and neither are the Mallory Unilites. I guess if I had to buy a new distributor today it would be the CB Magnaspark. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76911 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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Dave, while i agree that the German 009s are much better than the aftermarket ones, the 019 and 010 have better curves... In the right application. But the 009 does work... Just not as well.
There is a indexing tab on the cap clip that fits in a slot in the cap and that should prevent the cap from shuffling.
As to the SVDA, the same can be said for the original German vs the aftermarket. I have restored SVDAs in stock so it doesn't matter to me what the customer needs.... I can help. _________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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jpaull Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005 Posts: 3462 Location: Paradise, Ca
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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If that 009 doesn't have any play in the shaft, I would lock out the advance and get a CB Black Box and run a REAL timing curve that will get you some more torque and MPG.
Their Picture is a Perfect example of how and why.
http://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/2013.htm
_________________ [email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13848 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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What ever you decide keep the 009 for a back up distributor and take it on the trip. Never hurts to have a spare on hand. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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Glenn Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001 Posts: 76911 Location: Sneaking up behind you
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Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Distributor Change |
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jpaull wrote: |
If that 009 doesn't have any play in the shaft, I would lock out the advance and get a CB Black Box and run a REAL timing curve that will get you some more torque and MPG. |
If the 009 is not got, get a "good" 40hp Big Cap. They're vacuum only so easy to lock and they have a solid shaft so its direct drive off the crank gear.
And they have a large 100mm cap vs the smaller 60mm cap so there's no scatter (j/k)
That's what's being used on this race engine (crank trigger).
_________________ Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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