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84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod
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westina
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBznrHY7hfw
here is a video showing the engine operating
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westina
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

I can go over one more time since its not a very time consuming job. Can you check my steps? If number 1 cyl needs to be at the compression stroke as starting point, how do we make sure it is?
-notch on the pulley matches the mark on the engine
- distrubutor cap crack opened. rotor pointing to #1
Thats where i thought i was at TDC for #1 cyl.
After that , engine turned count. clkwise 180 degree and i thought that would put me to the position to adjust #2 cyl.
another 180 CC turn and did the #3 cyl
another 180 degree CC turn and cyl 4 adjusted.
Engine starts as before, ne pusr rod and tube in place and operates normal.
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Aryana
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

You can remove the spark plugs and turn over the engine by hand while you plug the spark plug hole with your finger to feel when it’s on the compression stroke on its way to TDC. It’ll blow air out the hole. Once it starts blowing, when you reach the TDC mark on the pulley aligned with the case mating seam, that’s TDC on the compression stroke for that cylinder. You must turn the engine the proper direction which is clockwise as viewed from the rear of the van.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Your engine sounds like the wires are probably located correctly, at worst two might be out 180° on the cap. Try disconnecting the wires from the throttle position switch and see if that will get rid of the surging and cut out for long enough for you to time the engine with a light.

Don't try to time it by the book, but set the timing at 26-28° BTDC at 3800+ rpms hoses off and plugged and the Digital Idle Stabilizer bypassed.
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westina
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Aryana wrote:
You can remove the spark plugs and turn over the engine by hand while you plug the spark plug hole with your finger to feel when it’s on the compression stroke on its way to TDC. It’ll blow air out the hole. Once it starts blowing, when you reach the TDC mark on the pulley aligned with the case mating seam, that’s TDC on the compression stroke for that cylinder. You must turn the engine the proper direction which is clockwise as viewed from the rear of the van.

Thanks. When you have reached to that point, you are supposed to adjust both intake and exhaust valves for that specific cylinder?
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westina
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Your engine sounds like the wires are probably located correctly, at worst two might be out 180° on the cap. Try disconnecting the wires from the throttle position switch and see if that will get rid of the surging and cut out for long enough for you to time the engine with a light.

Don't try to time it by the book, but set the timing at 26-28° BTDC at 3800+ rpms hoses off and plugged and the Digital Idle Stabilizer bypassed.

Timing is whole another chapter for me:) Honestly, at that point i am considering asking for some help from local vanagon wrenchers. Starting a topic or something to see if anyone would swing by and take a look. With my limited experience, i am having hard time establishing a basic starting point like
-how many turns in/out on the trottle body idle adjustment screw?
-removed the little plug covering the MAF adjustment first time. I am surprised nobody removed it before and messed with it. Anyway i am turning it in/out trying to see how would it effect.
There is a hissing sound goes up and down related to engine rpm. Makes me wonder if there is an air leak.
some other weird stuf...like smoke coming out of from here and there.
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Aryana
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

westina wrote:
Thanks. When you have reached to that point, you are supposed to adjust both intake and exhaust valves for that specific cylinder?


Yes.
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westina
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Aryana wrote:
westina wrote:
Thanks. When you have reached to that point, you are supposed to adjust both intake and exhaust valves for that specific cylinder?


Yes.

ok tx. Tomorrow.. i ll crawl under.
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westina
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:41 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Hi. I didn't have internet service, where i performed the valve adjustment so i may have missed few things. It wa easy to feel the compression stroke while the spark plug removed& finger in the hole. However the number 2 cyl. TDC didn't aligned with the compression stroke, or i somehow made a mistake noticing. Is it possible for that to happen? I also kept turning the engine counter clockwise, working on by order cyl1,2,3,4. Overall, i probably will have to do it again, trying different turn on the adjustment screws. A bit more, maybe 1 or 1 and 1/2 turns.
The other cylinders went ok. I gave them half turn after adjustment screw made slight contact with the lifter.
With this setting, the #3 and 4 CYL. are making much more noise compared to the #1 and 2. Also noticed that the valve cover on the #3, 4 side is much warmer to touch compared the other side. It might be due axhaust pipes layout. I am not sure.
I have also checked the compression(engine was cold) and the results are:
cyl1: 90psi .(prior to check, noticed that the push road tube was leaking and the further inspection revealed that the push rod itself was slightly curved, bent. Since i was in the middle of the process, i heated up the push rod and bend it back to the original shape. it looks almost straight but there is still might be a possibility that low reading is the result of the leaky tube and the imperfect push rod)
CYL#2 125 PSI
CYL#3 100 PSI
CYL#4 120 PSI
One simply question i should ask is, which valve represents intake or exhaust? I am guessing for cyl1 and 3: intake valve towards the front and for cyl 2 and 4 towards the rear?


Last edited by westina on Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

The intakes are the two middle valves on each cylinder head, while the exhaust are the two outer valves.

It is not possible for your valves to not align properly, if one valve is correct then the others are correct as well. The only time this wouldn't be true is if the camshaft was broken which isn't very likely.

It can take a while for the lifters to pump up when you have adjusted them, especially if you went from a 2 turn preload to significantly less preload.

Lifter like thin oil, so if you are running a thicker oil they may not pump up until the engine gets nice and hot. Running your engine cold for a short period of time is a good way to get your lifters to leak down, a lot of times of course this can not be avoided.

Dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil or some other upper cylinder wall lubricant into your gas tank "may" help bring your compression up.

The book calls for two turns of preload, which should mean that you can go a very long time between adjustments without worrying about the wear on the adjusting screw and valve stem tip. Your lifter will also be slightly lighter than if adjusted to less preload. Not sure why people so universally believe that 1/2 turn has magically become the best preload to use.
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westina
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
The intakes are the two middle valves on each cylinder head, while the exhaust are the two outer valves.

It is not possible for your valves to not align properly, if one valve is correct then the others are correct as well. The only time this wouldn't be true is if the camshaft was broken which isn't very likely.

It can take a while for the lifters to pump up when you have adjusted them, especially if you went from a 2 turn preload to significantly less preload.

Lifter like thin oil, so if you are running a thicker oil they may not pump up until the engine gets nice and hot. Running your engine cold for a short period of time is a good way to get your lifters to leak down, a lot of times of course this can not be avoided.

Dumping a quart of Marvel Mystery Oil or some other upper cylinder wall lubricant into your gas tank "may" help bring your compression up.

The book calls for two turns of preload, which should mean that you can go a very long time between adjustments without worrying about the wear on the adjusting screw and valve stem tip. Your lifter will also be slightly lighter than if adjusted to less preload. Not sure why people so universally believe that 1/2 turn has magically become the best preload to use.

Thanks. It appears that i ll do it again with throttle wide open and all spark plugs removed. I was removing the plugs one at a time and didn't touched the trottle. On top of that, the battery had very little juice. I should also change the push rod tube and even the push rod, as i have explained the situation in my previous message.
General speaking, this numbers doesn't look too bad right? With a better prepared testing, i hope them to go up a bit more.
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mikemtnbike
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

westina your #'s are totally off if you're testing cold, throttle closed, and spark plugs in three cylinders you aren't testing. Yes try again.

I've never read anything about bending push rods back to straight and I would not do it. They're cheap anyway.

EDIT: Well, the internests tells me yes you can straighten but no it's not recommended. So, I guess there's that.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

mikemtnbike wrote:

I've never read anything about bending push rods back to straight and I would not do it. They're cheap anyway.

EDIT: Well, the internests tells me yes you can straighten but no it's not recommended. So, I guess there's that.


I wouldn't have any qualms about cold straightening a not too bent pushrod, but I have done this kind of thing a lot and can probably get it within a few thousandths of being straight. His having heated a pushrod up to straighten it would certainly put it on the replacement list IMO though.
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?Waldo?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

westina wrote:
It wa easy to feel the compression stroke while the spark plug removed & finger in the hole. However the number 2 cyl. TDC didn't aligned with the compression stroke, or i somehow made a mistake noticing. Is it possible for that to happen? I also kept turning the engine counter clockwise, working on by order cyl1,2,3,4. Overall, i probably will have to do it again, trying different turn on the adjustment screws.


It's better to rotate the engine clockwise. From the point of all four plugs removed and feeling the compression build on #1 cyl, rotate CW until the TDC mark is aligned. That is TDC for #1. Look at the rotor and make sure it is pointing to the #1 spark plug wire in the distributor cap. Adjust #1 valves. Rotate crank clockwise 180° so the TDC mark is at the bottom of the pulley. The rotor should point to the #4 plug wire. Adjust #4 valves. Rotate crank clockwise 180° so the TDC mark is again aligned at the top of the pulley with the case seam. Rotor should point for #3. Adjust valves for #3. Rotate crank CW 180° so timing mark is at the bottom of the pulley. Rotor should point at #2, adjust #2 valves.
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westina
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

?Waldo? wrote:
westina wrote:
It wa easy to feel the compression stroke while the spark plug removed & finger in the hole. However the number 2 cyl. TDC didn't aligned with the compression stroke, or i somehow made a mistake noticing. Is it possible for that to happen? I also kept turning the engine counter clockwise, working on by order cyl1,2,3,4. Overall, i probably will have to do it again, trying different turn on the adjustment screws.


It's better to rotate the engine clockwise. From the point of all four plugs removed and feeling the compression build on #1 cyl, rotate CW until the TDC mark is aligned. That is TDC for #1. Look at the rotor and make sure it is pointing to the #1 spark plug wire in the distributor cap. Adjust #1 valves. Rotate crank clockwise 180° so the TDC mark is at the bottom of the pulley. The rotor should point to the #4 plug wire. Adjust #4 valves. Rotate crank clockwise 180° so the TDC mark is again aligned at the top of the pulley with the case seam. Rotor should point for #3. Adjust valves for #3. Rotate crank CW 180° so timing mark is at the bottom of the pulley. Rotor should point at #2, adjust #2 valves.

Thanks. That is a very clear way to explain it. Push rod will be changed. I am out for 2 weeks vacay.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

I went over every connection, replaced the vacuum lines, good and tight the throttle body to plenum and started up. Noticing the hissing sound is gone, i was sure to achieve better running engine and it was idling fine. Hopped on to the driver seat and and took it for a short test drive down the street. However it was running ok first and second gear, it stumbled and died at higher gears. got back to the garage disappointed and finished for the day. Next morning started with lots of questions, do i have a bad throttle body, MAF etc..Usual vanagon owner stuff. Staring at the engine, i have noticed that i forgot to plug the connector back to the MAF. Connected and did a victory lap feeling like a Julius Caesar in his charriot. Switching 3rd, 4th gear without a problem, engine pulling strong.
Few things still needs to be adressed though. My spark plugs, even with a very small use like 5-10 min, comes out dry fouled, covered with black sooth. How should i adress that issue? Is there a rough guide how many turns the idle speed screw should be set? How do you manipulate things with the allien nut located on the MAF?
Since i have the dasboard and gauges removed, i leave the timing check and adjustment to future.
I am starting to work on the body, getting ready for a paint job.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

If you fixed a vacuum leak you may well now have an engine that is running too rich. The screw on the AFM will adjust the idle mixture, but count the quarter turns you make so you can put it back were it was if need be. (out is leaner).

The TSII sensor also need to send the correct signal to the ECU so that the ECU knows the engine has warmed up.

For the engine to really run right the thermostat has to work correctly getting the engine to operating temp quickly and the input from the TSII sensor needs to be correct, along with the O2 sensor needs to work well.

Best to read and reread the manual before attempting any adjustments.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
If you fixed a vacuum leak you may well now have an engine that is running too rich. The screw on the AFM will adjust the idle mixture, but count the quarter turns you make so you can put it back were it was if need be. (out is leaner).

The TSII sensor also need to send the correct signal to the ECU so that the ECU knows the engine has warmed up.

For the engine to really run right the thermostat has to work correctly getting the engine to operating temp quickly and the input from the TSII sensor needs to be correct, along with the O2 sensor needs to work well.

Best to read and reread the manual before attempting any adjustments.

temp2, O2, Thermostat all replaced. Unless the connections are bad or something, they should work fine but i don't know how to test them further. Radiator fan kicks in so that should proof thermostat is working right.?
I still have 3-6 months of work to do. Perhaps i can team up with few local vanagon owners to adress this fine tuning issues.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

westina wrote:
Wildthings wrote:
If you fixed a vacuum leak you may well now have an engine that is running too rich. The screw on the AFM will adjust the idle mixture, but count the quarter turns you make so you can put it back were it was if need be. (out is leaner).

The TSII sensor also need to send the correct signal to the ECU so that the ECU knows the engine has warmed up.

For the engine to really run right the thermostat has to work correctly getting the engine to operating temp quickly and the input from the TSII sensor needs to be correct, along with the O2 sensor needs to work well.

Best to read and reread the manual before attempting any adjustments.

temp2, O2, Thermostat all replaced. Unless the connections are bad or something, they should work fine but i don't know how to test them further. Radiator fan kicks in so that should proof thermostat is working right.?
I still have 3-6 months of work to do. Perhaps i can team up with few local vanagon owners to adress this fine tuning issues.


The Bentley has a pretty good troubleshooting guide. Much of it is checking voltages and resistances at the plug on the ECU which will let you know if there are any problems in the wiring harness. Also some of the vendors will rent special diagnostic apparatus they have built to make trouble shooting a bit easier.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: 84 Vanagon 1.9 WBX Push rod Reply with quote

If most of the running time on this engine to date has been starting and running at low speed for only a few minutes at a time, it is normal for the spark plugs to be sooty. During warm-up, the air-fuel ratio is rather rich, which will cause soot deposition on the spark plugs.

There is really no effective adjustment for this because the lambda system (meaning the oxygen sensor and the ECU circuitry associated with mixture trim) always adjusts the air fuel ratio to 14.7:1 by mass.

If the oxygen sensor is not functioning correctly (say, due to a wiring issue) or if there is a leak in the exhaust system or the engine has misses, then the mixture can be way off.

The AFM adjustment is only done when installing a new or replacement Air Flow Meter (AFM). The Vanagon does not have a Mass Air Flow (MAF) sensor. The difference between these types of sensors is significant in that a MAF has no adjustment capability and is a vastly superior type of sensor with no moving parts.

The AFM adjustment is only required on a Vanagon to address the short time period on a cold start until the Lambda system takes over fuel mixture trim. Once the lambda system starts operating, (which is determined by the coolant temperature sensor reaching the threshold temperature) any adjustment you do to the AFM will be ineffective and will instead be overridden by the lambda system.

If you have not had the fuel injectors sonic cleaned at an injector shop, that is strongly recommended. Over time, injectors get clogged and the spray patterns and injection quantity will then vary from cylinder to cylinder which can cause a number of running issues.
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