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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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 Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:37 pm Post subject: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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I am in the planning stages of a future buggy build. Nothing has been bought yet so I would like to here some of the things you guys would do differently to hopefully save myself some grief. I will detail my plan and let you guys pick it apart.
I want a buggy that is good on and off road (light off-road as i live in Florida).
My Plan as follows
- New body from either Meyers (shipping cost?) or Berrien Color orange.
- Berrien chassis IRS and maybe Ball joint ( see What is available locally).
- Fisher buggies Cage (Look better than Berrien's in my opinion).
- Race-Trim low back seats in black ( Cloth or Vinyl?).
- Berrien full soft top black.
- Four wheel disc brakes with Chevy pattern.
- American racing torque thrust wheels 5" and 8" not sure on tires yet.
- pro street style IRS gear box 4.12 R&P stock gears.
- 2275 Motor, CB wedge ports, FK 8-10 cam, 48 IDf webers and 1/5/8" exh.
- Speed Hut jeep GPS speedo with tach.
- Berrien rear cage with body support.
- type 2 CV joints with maybe notched spring plates?
- Oval front turn signals and 65 impala rear brake lights
- I would like heat, Heater boxes?
- Wink mirror
I have a picture of a buggy that I like that I will try to attach.
It sits the height I like, not to tall and not low rider.
Please pick this idea apart as it could save me lots of headaches and money.
And yes I know the FK10 is big, but I have had that combo in the past and liked it. But may be persuader in to the FK8.
Thanks In advance all thoughts are welcomed.
Matthew Lundquist
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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Do you plan any drag racing or is this just street & light off-road?
No matter what you intend I would start with a 1 5/8"x.120 DOM tubing and build the full cage to pass NHRA safety specs. You can't be too safe.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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| Mostly street and some trail riding, with the occasional trip to the track(2-3 a year). Not sure what fisher makes their cage out of but more than likely the same tubing they build their buggy frames out of. |
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AMAC1680
Samba Member
Joined: April 09, 2015
Posts: 300
Location: Jacksonville Fl/Mantoloking NJ
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:12 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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I agree check the cage.
I prefer PRP roadster searts, just me.
The freight will be costly to ship the single Manx body to Fl, I was looking at 2k.
Last please don’t title , register and insure it as a beetle. It’s not hard in Fl to do it right.
Best of luck keep us posted.
AMAC
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www.SEGS4VETS.org |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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I plan on registering it as a new construction, like you said its not a big deal in Florida. I will investigate the cage more. I like the PRP seats too just cost of shipping is a factor as no one local has them. But there are several Empi dealers that can get the Race-Trim seat when they do an order so shipping cost would be low to nothing.
I would like to know if cloth or vinyl is better. Cloth just seems cooler as the Florida sun can make vinyl seats uncomfortable. But cloth seems like it would not last as long. What are your opinions on that?
Shipping is a big cost factor in the body's I would like to have a New classic Manx but it may be out of my range, as I could buy a lot of parts for the cost of shipping. Thanks for the info on shipping AMAC 1680. |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20380
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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As for seats, if cheap (low cost shipping ) is a criteria to you, for seat selection just get dumb ass poly seats.... There is no substitute for seat comfort, because its your connection from you body to car.... I use PRP roadsters and love them.... Cost is not a issue when it comes to comfort, if seats are not comfortable you WILL NOT enjoy your ride...
As for cage, I had mine custom made locally to my design... NHRA or SCCA specs, .120 wall. 1-5/8 diameter DOM... IF you have cage is will demand race tech officials inspect it to meet specs...
Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:48 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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Does anyone have first hand experience with the Race-Trim seats? I have only meet one person that has had them and they just got them. I don't mind spending a little more on things like seats and engine parts and cage. But unfortunately since I am on the wrong coast Shipping charges may factor in cost  . |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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Don't get hung up on getting everything perfect on the first try. Expect to make changes along the way. The best thing you can do is drive one for a while and make changes based on what you do and don't like about that experience.
If I had blindly listened to some folks I would have spent a fortune on things I didn't need. Don't be afraid to spend money where it matters to you. But remember, every ass is different so things like seats feel different for every person. It is most helpful to try things out before you buy when you can. My Jaz poly seats are quite confortable to me (so much so that my ass and bad back can't figure out why so many people hate them) but I don't drive off road much. I often use them without the padded covers, mostly because I don't like having to dry them out when they get wet.
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Brian
'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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I'm not going to try to make it perfect on paper then build it LOL. Just sneaking advise on what people would do differently I.E. Top is no good or don't drive it because suspension choice made it unbearable, things like that. Just put my plan up there to see if anyone see a red flag. And most are pointing out the cage , which I will check what fisher makes them out of. Thanks for the commits keep them coming boy's.
Matt  |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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| matthewl wrote: |
| Does anyone have first hand experience with the Race-Trim seats? I have only meet one person that has had them and they just got them. I don't mind spending a little more on things like seats and engine parts and cage. But unfortunately since I am on the wrong coast Shipping charges may factor in cost . |
I build a lot of buggies and there are several items I have searched, tried, look for and just outright buy. Some are for looks, some are for comfort.
Exhausts. I have tried about every buggy/baja style exhaust. Fit and noise level are my considerations there.
Wheels and tires. Kind of enough threads on this site about those already, and IMO, they are a personal choice.
Color. I don't like repeating myself on colors when I build another buggy, but again, that is a personal choice.
Seats. Like Dale stated, if they are not comfortable, you will not enjoy driving the buggy and your special other will not like riding in it either. As my personal choice, some seats look so wrong in a buggy, they can just be so out of place looking in a buggy. In a rice burner, they may look cool, but a buggy is a different aspect. Some are just too wide to fit between the tub side and the tunnel. Some are too skinny, (yes, there are some out there like that).
I am not overweight, just a big person at 6'2" and 217 pounds. I have found that if my big rear fits a seat comfortably, 99% of everyone else can get comfortable in that seat too. So I pick seats I can get comfortable in and then the buyer of the buggy will also be comfortable.
I do not fit in the Beard seats, or the PRP's at all. My hip bones ride on the frame and not in the seat. I fit the Miata seat, but again, my bones ride the frame on those too. The only suspension seat I can get comfortable in is the Race Trim seats. I have had two sets of them. One set was cloth. I set the cloth seats down, turned around, sneezed once, and they were dirty. They were cooler than the vinyl seats. I currently have the Race Trim vinyl seats. At the moment in West Virginia, they are cold to sit in, (we have 2 inches of snow on).
One word of caution, they are a tight fit in the buggy. They will be pressed against the tub side wall and almost touch each other across the tunnel. This is on the forward top of the lower part of the seat where they flare out. And IMO, they look decent in a buggy.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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- New body from either Meyers (shipping cost?) or Berrien Color orange.
- Berrien chassis IRS and maybe Ball joint ( see What is available locally).
- Fisher buggies Cage (Look better than Berrien's in my opinion).
- Berrien rear cage with body support.
- type 2 CV joints with maybe notched spring plates?
- Wink mirror
Body. I do not know where you are in FL, but a friend had two bodies from Meyers shipped at once through Factory Five Racing to the Jacksonville FL area and they ended up being cheap on shipping at about $ 700 per body. may see if you can team up with someone.
Berrien chassis. The IRS BJ combo works really nice on the street, and BJ up front will take a decent amount of punishment off road.
Fisher Buggy cage. The NORRA Mexican 1000 race I will be in in April '18 requires 1.5 inch X 0.095 wall tubing up to 2000 pounds. I personally build 1 5/8 X 0.120 cages for my buggies.
Berrien rear cage. I have had one of these and it was only designed for dual cannon style exhaust and did not have the room for a 4 into one exhaust. They may now offer an extended design for a true header to have it's needed room, but check first.
TII CVs. They add very little extra weight to the bearings on a Beetle style trans, but add a lot of strength that the 2276 will need. The spring plates can take about 3/8 to 1/2 inch notch and still run the TII CVs. I have 50,000 miles on a set of EMPI TIIs and run at 17" axle angle.
Wink Mirror. I absolutely love my wink mirror in mine.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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| Thank you Joescoolcustoms That is some good information. I have seen some of your builds here and like the different styles you have done. Your orange manx sits kind of high. How does it compare to the ones you have build stock height? I ask because You have a lot of miles under your belt. Also one more question on the seats,are they the low side style race-trim 19" wide. I would think that's the only style that would fit. |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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I believe the guys in Jacksonville are called buggy brothers? Yeah I have seen on FB that they just got a set of body's in and have all the options . Just not my color. If I go for a Meyers may see if we can get them shipped together like you suggested. Have you seen A Berrien built How is the quality? I have head of small defects ( on the Hood)from other people but most of the buggy's around here get repainted in metallic so I have not seen these defects.
Keep it coming guys all good info. |
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Tom_Kathleen
Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2004
Posts: 919
Location: Vernon, CT
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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We had a set of Racetrim seats in our Manx. They were comfortable, but the naugahyde was peeling after just 3 years. They are being replaced with PRP seats. Tom
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Manxter #16, 1968 Meyers Manx & Kick-Out SS #16 (WIP)
Manx Club & CVA
Last edited by Tom_Kathleen on Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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| matthewl wrote: |
| Thank you Joescoolcustoms That is some good information. I have seen some of your builds here and like the different styles you have done. Your orange manx sits kind of high. How does it compare to the ones you have build stock height? I ask because You have a lot of miles under your belt. Also one more question on the seats,are they the low side style race-trim 19" wide. I would think that's the only style that would fit. |
I have now prepped it for the NORRA race in April '18, and it sits even higher. For the trip across the US in '15, I added a rear sway bar, and that made high speed maneuvers a lot safer. It is a pig and pushes on the curves, but I can stay with every other buggy on the street through the mountains, and because of the power, pull away from some. For road traveling, I love the height for a better sight advantage on the road. But getting in is now a problem even with my 34 inseam. "Racking" the jewels is now a problem. But it is a severely modified and lifted suspension to the point I am maxed on 930 CV joints.
I enjoy driving the stock heights and even lowered buggies as long as I am comfortable in them. It is just a different feel and mindset. For running around local, I like the lowered buggy the best. But I do like the sight advantage when traveling a lot better that a lifted buggy provides.
Unless I am going all out assault for racing, closed course, off road, or drag, I go small on the torsion bars They provide the best ride quality. I ran 21 mm torsion bars in my 2000 pound buggy for 50,000 miles and the ride is super. I just go slower off road with them.
The Race Trims are the low style 19" bottom width versions. The others are just too wide.
These are the first set I had:
These are the current set and will be in the buggy for the NORRA 1000:
Here is the RT next to the Scat Procar 90 seats. As a side note, the Scat Procar weighs 40 pounds each. The RTs weigh 19 pounds each.
Here both are installed in the race buggy with the new roll cage. (had to re-design it to meet the race rules)
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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joescoolcustoms
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 9054
Location: West By God Virginia
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:04 am Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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| matthewl wrote: |
I believe the guys in Jacksonville are called buggy brothers? Yeah I have seen on FB that they just got a set of body's in and have all the options . Just not my color. If I go for a Meyers may see if we can get them shipped together like you suggested. Have you seen A Berrien built How is the quality? I have head of small defects ( on the Hood)from other people but most of the buggy's around here get repainted in metallic so I have not seen these defects.
Keep it coming guys all good info. |
Like I stated above, color choice is a personal thing. I too would not have picked those two colors, but they are pretty none the less.
I helped a buddy build a Berrien Chassis under his Manx, and it was a nice chassis. Well done, good welds, nice design. What I did not like was the shifter and E-Brake mounted to the fiberglass tunnel. So, we added underneath bracing welded to the chassis that when the shifter and E-Brake was bolted in, it stopped all the flex the fiberglass was prone to. It turned out to be a super solid chassis and made him an really nice buggy, which he and his daughter drove across the US with us in '15.
As for the bodies, the first flake bodies Berrien made had a lot of visual flaws to the point I would have had to re-paint them for myself. But this past May, when they had the display at The Import Nationals in Carlisle PA, I could not find one flaw in a flake bodies they had on site. Drastic improvement. The solid color bodies I looked at from Berrien at one of their dealers in NC was very well built, but they had used very course roving fiberglass and it looked odd on the sides of the body.
Other than visual flaws that I am a little picky about, the Berrien products are really nice and of high quality. Both the chassis, bumpers and the bodies.
The new Meyers Manxter I built was of high quality also. Thick and consistent glass, flake was spot on with no flaws. And the Dave Barrett chassis I modified for it was also very well designed and built.
IMO, any body I have worked on/with/seen made from the mid 90's on has been of high quality. I guess they have to be high quality now days with all the other used bodies around in order to sell them and make a viable company.
_________________
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in Class
Best Day Ever Racing 2022 NORRA 1000 2nd in Class and first All Female team to complete the race
Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.
Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone |
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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Your cam, heads and carb choices are not necessarily what you want for your intended use of the Buggy, but the engine details can be finalized later. Build the Buggy first and when you know your rear tire size we can help with gearing choice and engine details.
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2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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There was good thread about what to do differently a while back:
If you did it again, what would be different?? Wisdom???
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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matthewl
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2014
Posts: 330
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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Joescoolcustoms
Thanks for the picture of the seats and feed back, that helps a lot. It's good to the quality of both buggies are are good. This will help me make a decision better.
VWracerdave
I have had that engine combo in a bug and it had power from 2500-7000K, but that was in a bug and a buggy is different. I may scale the cam, heads and cards back to some thing like a fk7 or FK 42 and Los Panchito's with the CNC chamber on 44 webers or 40 Del's. It will depend on tire and gearing choice to as was said earlier.Thanks for the suggestions.
EVfun
Thanks for the link I think I have read through that but that was over a year a go. Will go back and check it out tonight.
Keep the ideas flowing they all help. |
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cbeck
Samba Member
Joined: January 14, 2014
Posts: 2495
Location: high ridge, mo
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| Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: What would you do differently on you FG buggy? |
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In the classifieds here, genuine manx seem to bring a premium over other manufacturers bodies.
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My cut in half and rebuild thread
www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=647779 |
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