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Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| Manfred58sc wrote: |
| Buyer Beware is the central rule of capitalism and " light bulb technology did not come about by continual improvements to candle making ". This is a fundamental shift that is already striking fear ( new EU regulations on exchanges) in the hearts of the financial system. Crypto is an unstoppable extension of the free flow of information. That cat is out of the bag, because it is how 8 billion people want to interact. Governmental efforts of control will fail as there are too many independent delivery systems tied to actual commerce. I'm sure horses and buggys sold ok for awhile once automobiles hit the scene, until no one made them anymore. |
Skeptics "just don't get it" is another universal feature of bubbles. I heard it in a pitch about Enron, and from an e-business portal with a $9 billion market cap on $20 million in revenue...both bankrupt soon thereafter.
Block chain is exciting new technology, but you are still trusting that someone or something somewhere will give you your money or goods when you ask for it. There have already been hacks where people's bitcoins are simply gone, with no possibility of getting them back.
I think people are underestimating the ability of governments to control commerce, and the possibility that the public will actually demand it.
| EverettB wrote: |
| "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public." |
True, but the real drivers here will be 4 billion Asians and their $7 trillion in savings. If they convert much of that to crypto-currency, it will have the potential to cause huge economic disruption if they all head for the exit at the same time. If that happens, it will be good to have some dollars in an FDIC insured account at a crusty old bank, and a central bank to print some more of them to restore liquidity.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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China is strongly indicating they want to distance themselves from US treasury bonds and has announced it will no longer accept foreign waste ( sounds unrelated but its not). How fast are the enormous amount of dollars out there going to be crypto exchanged ? Very fast. Losses and theft of Bitcoin has been through the exchanges not through the base technology ( much like banks loose money for depositors all the time ). Crypto has been declared dead by dozens of financial "authorities" , yet it keeps thriving due to its decentralized nature. Crypto is a means of communication that has the broadest implication in human history.
Time will tell the tale on this outcome soon enough.
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Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| Manfred58sc wrote: |
| Time will tell the tale on this outcome soon enough. |
Yep. It'll be a fun ride, with fortunes made and lost, and unintended consequences we can only imagine.
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
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Location: Phoenix Metro
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Money deposited into a zero ( or near zero ) interest rate account is losing value due to inflation, continually . The relationship between banks and fractional lending from the Federal Reserve creates an inherent disadvantage to participating citizens that would be recognized as fraud in any other arena.
Not all banks are FDIC insured and there are limits (which vary from time to time) to recovery in case of failure that have left many depositors without satisfaction. The Savings and Loan scandal in the 90's is a prime example.
QE programs by the Fed are a prime example of the type of abuse peer to peer financial arrangements seek to extinguish. Crypto is volatile, however its "organic" nature is very attractive, especially as a global platform. The old paradigm of various fiat currencies are too slow and cumbersome for the ever accelerating pace of international transactions .
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Earl 78 westy
Samba Member
Joined: October 28, 2007
Posts: 364
Location: Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Is it possible to "collect" dollars back from Coinbase?
I invested a couple hundred bucks a few months back. It has since grown, so to speak. If I want to retrieve my "profits", can i do that?
I have looked at it briefly and it seems it cannot be done.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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purchase goods and services directly w/bitcoin. Or sell them through exchanges
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Bob Loblaw
Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2008
Posts: 865
Location: Vancouver Island, Canada
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Link
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15303
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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What's your opinion of buying gold & silver? I'm talking about actually possessing the metal bullion not a certificate of ownership from an investment group.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51126
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| What's your opinion of buying gold & silver? I'm talking about actually possessing the metal bullion not a certificate of ownership from an investment group. |
Unless L'il Kimmy lands one of his nukes on the states or some other evil empire contrives a way to crash global markets you aren't going to see much of a gain in short term ownership. I haven't been watching the prices seriously lately but any gains seem to be fairly close to inflation or the interest another investment may pay, more often than not even less.
It's a good way to store (hide) surplus funds, and it's fun to play with a little bar of soap sized brick that's super heavy and sometimes worth more than your car. It rarely goes down much, and if some sort of epic hack or natural disaster strikes it may be just what you need, it is the universal currency after all.
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heimlich
VWNOS.com
Joined: November 20, 2016
Posts: 6593
Location: Houston, Texas
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:30 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| What's your opinion of buying gold & silver? I'm talking about actually possessing the metal bullion not a certificate of ownership from an investment group. |
That reminds me of the silver certificate dollars. You can exchange those for bullion but they are worth more now than the actual bullion.
Diversification is the key. Own a little this, a little that, and the other. One goes up. The other goes down. You hope to even out.
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sb001
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2011
Posts: 10406
Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Aaaannd..... bitcoin promptly loses 1/3 of its market value today, before rebounding to only have lost 1/4....
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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It always reverts back to gold. Why? Inherent value.
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Splitdog
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Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Also, when the proverbial shit hits the fan, you can hold money, or gold in your hand and trade directly with anyone for food, gas, etc in real time on the spot with no electricity or account required. Same goes for dollars, which will probably be devalued severely by then.
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Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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I'm out. It popped back up today, and I'm taking my $75 profit and declaring victory. I have a nagging feeling that now that Wall Street is getting involved, there may be a short-selling raid by someone with deep pockets to see if they can drive people out. If they are able to make a temporary crash, maybe I'll jump back in. If I do I'll look for someone other than Coinbase, their fees are too high.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
Posts: 3382
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Wall street has very little to do with Bitcoin. 70% of the users are in Asia. The dollar centered view that Americans embrace is in antithesis of this type of exchange. The more users Bitcoin has , the more stable it becomes. Futures trading will help smooth some highs and lows. The exchanges are in definite need of improvement.
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Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| Manfred58sc wrote: |
| Wall street has very little to do with Bitcoin. 70% of the users are in Asia. The dollar centered view that Americans embrace is in antithesis of this type of exchange. The more users Bitcoin has , the more stable it becomes. Futures trading will help smooth some highs and lows. The exchanges are in definite need of improvement. |
We'll see. It doesn't matter if it's dollars, won or renminbi, when the margin calls come, it's an avalanche.
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Manfred58sc
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2009
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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hey! you already made money, which puts Bitcoin way ahead of say, a saving account at a bank ( Bankers must just laugh till they piss when they see chumps open one of those ). I find the whole process fascinating to watch, I have not invested in crypto as of yet.
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Splitdog
Samba Split Personality
Joined: February 16, 2004
Posts: 4125
Location: Planet VW
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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Just remember, history repeats itself. Always.
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ALLWAGONS
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2000
Posts: 4186
Location: Pasadena CA/DTLA soon China
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Bitcoin |
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| Splitdog wrote: |
| It always reverts back to gold. Why? Inherent value. |
Gold is tangible, you can take it with you and accepted worldwide.
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