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Col_Forbin
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2011
Posts: 84
Location: Austin, Texas
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| deMarc wrote: |
| Thanks to all for the advice. Looks like I may continue working from the homestead a little while longer. Thank you all for the input. |
If you literally mean 'homestead' and have a little space.. get you a good shop going out there, keep your overhead low, and do the best marketing you can.
Even word of mouth might be enough considering how tight most local VW communities are. That's the way I would do it. Just a thought.
_________________
Goin' where the climate suits my clothes
Levon the 66 Westy:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=655780
71 Deluxe Bay |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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Merry Christmas to all of you VW" breadbox" drivers!
Hope you have a peaceful Christmas with lots of NOS under the tree.
As to this thread....I am in OKC for the holiday. And...I saw this display last year and its up again now. This guy is a serious bus owner...and may just give some merit to whether OKC is a great location for a "bus" shop.
I will not say where this is in OKC...just that its West side
Night time
Day Time
Nice herd in the pasture!
More in the front yard!
So...even though OKC has always had a pretty good VW scene all of my life...I still say...do not make it just bus.
Specialize in bus...but do certain things for all air cooled. You will need the volume.
And network. Figure out what you want to do...and what the other local shops can do. Like Larrys...Fast Eddies....get together with them and throw each other a bone.
If someone comes in and you are doing three things for them and they have a fourth that you really do not specialize in...send teh work to Eddies or Larrys. Work out a finders fee. Work with Kerr auto for parts buys.
Ray |
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SamboSamba22
Samba Member
Joined: August 06, 2015
Posts: 2772
Location: Benton, Arkansas
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:40 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| SamboSamba22 wrote: |
Uh-oh everyone can now see Scott’s stash!
(90% sure that’s his spread). |
 ....trust me....whoevers these are....they are not hiding them. The lighted display is about 75 feet from the street....a major 4 lane artery with constant 24/7 trafffic. All of this is visble. I took this picture standing by the street. But that does not mean I'm handing out the address!
Ray |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:40 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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Let me post a few of my young whippersnapper observations.. as a 33 year old, daily driving VW'er, and a successful small business owner in the recent past.
 Running a small business is hard.. STARTING a small business is harder. There are life compromises that have to be made; do you choose to spend time with the business, or your family, or your own hobbies? How much time can you spend every day doing each? How long will your family tolerate burning the candle at both ends, before they themselves become burned?
My observation of the VW owners I see interacting in my local area (Memphis) is that there are some very distinct groups of owners. Some like to tinker themselves, but are lost beyond turning a screwdriver. Others have ambition to work on their own stuff, and can start working, but need help figuring out how to get from A to B on VW specific work. Others still just dive in and go whole hog repairing and maintaining their vehicles. Each of those groups has its own different set of needs from a VW shop. Parts, service, support, advice, roadside service, house calls all come to mind.
I have not just seen a decline in VW shops or stores. It is a creeping cancer in brick & mortar shops, especially if the shop performs an obsolete function - think TV and VCR repair, photo supply stores, etc. Or just mom & pop stores in general. I used to work in professional photography, and we were pretty good. Somehow my number got listed as a camera repair shop and I still today get a steady stream of calls and voicemails, usually from an older person or someone not local to the area, of people looking for cameras and supplies. I was buying some film from our last photo supply store several years ago at their going-out-of-business sale, and remarked to the owner that I was surprised to see them closing, when they were literally the last camera and supply store in town, bar none. He sort of smiled at me and said "Well I wouldn't be closing if there were money to be made." So - I knew there was a demand, but coming from the horse's mouth, that demand did not sustain itself. The point is, you may see VWs in the area, and know they need what you can offer, but they may not be enough to keep you running as a full time business.
The few resilient places that come to mind are all specialized, niche shops. Cooker's V-dubs. Rimco. Raby. Hoffman. I think Chris Vallone breaks that mold, but he's got a large population density to pull from.
Those are just a few thoughts, in no particular order. I'd love to offer some kind of aircooled shop work in my area of Memphis but numerous reasons have kept me from putting out a shingle. I think the best way to wade in to a business like this is word of mouth grassroots promotion.. you can take the customers you want, and tell the leeches to take a hike. Start small, out of your shop or garage on your land. Cleanliness and neatness go very, very far with clients and their decision to favorably talk about you to their friends; competency is almost taken for granted now days until it's too late. On-time appointments and early deliveries on jobs done.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:10 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
Let me post a few of my young whippersnapper observations.. as a 33 year old, daily driving VW'er, and a successful small business owner in the recent past.
Running a small business is hard.. STARTING a small business is harder. There are life compromises that have to be made; do you choose to spend time with the business, or your family, or your own hobbies? How much time can you spend every day doing each? How long will your family tolerate burning the candle at both ends, before they themselves become burned?
My observation of the VW owners I see interacting in my local area (Memphis) is that there are some very distinct groups of owners. Some like to tinker themselves, but are lost beyond turning a screwdriver. Others have ambition to work on their own stuff, and can start working, but need help figuring out how to get from A to B on VW specific work. Others still just dive in and go whole hog repairing and maintaining their vehicles. Each of those groups has its own different set of needs from a VW shop. Parts, service, support, advice, roadside service, house calls all come to mind.
I have not just seen a decline in VW shops or stores. It is a creeping cancer in brick & mortar shops, especially if the shop performs an obsolete function - think TV and VCR repair, photo supply stores, etc. Or just mom & pop stores in general. I used to work in professional photography, and we were pretty good. Somehow my number got listed as a camera repair shop and I still today get a steady stream of calls and voicemails, usually from an older person or someone not local to the area, of people looking for cameras and supplies. I was buying some film from our last photo supply store several years ago at their going-out-of-business sale, and remarked to the owner that I was surprised to see them closing, when they were literally the last camera and supply store in town, bar none. He sort of smiled at me and said "Well I wouldn't be closing if there were money to be made." So - I knew there was a demand, but coming from the horse's mouth, that demand did not sustain itself. The point is, you may see VWs in the area, and know they need what you can offer, but they may not be enough to keep you running as a full time business.
The few resilient places that come to mind are all specialized, niche shops. Cooker's V-dubs. Rimco. Raby. Hoffman. I think Chris Vallone breaks that mold, but he's got a large population density to pull from.
Those are just a few thoughts, in no particular order. I'd love to offer some kind of aircooled shop work in my area of Memphis but numerous reasons have kept me from putting out a shingle. I think the best way to wade in to a business like this is word of mouth grassroots promotion.. you can take the customers you want, and tell the leeches to take a hike. Start small, out of your shop or garage on your land. Cleanliness and neatness go very, very far with clients and their decision to favorably talk about you to their friends; competency is almost taken for granted now days until it's too late. On-time appointments and early deliveries on jobs done. |
Nice well thought out post! I will add one thing to what you said.
Since I work almost exclusively in an industry that is "thought" by a great many to be obsolete...and was predicted about 3-5 times since 1995 to have been totally gone by now........screen printing.....I think there is sometjing key yo be learned.
I no longer for example do much "T-shirt" work which is what most people think my industry is....but its never really been my end of it....I work strictly in medical, industrial and electronic printing. My industry has grown about 300%....seriously......since 2000 and is expanding explosively in certain areas...and no....most of it will never be replaced (only augmented by)...digital processes. The physics and chemistry are beyond what digital printing can totally replace.
My key point being......and this is a folllw up to your photography point.....sometimes as you think an industry is dying.....and as its just melting away in front of your eyes like the phoyography supply shops.....as it reaches a certain point over a period of time.....the industry changes again......and those who have the money to stay in business and to strategically......be the last man standing when the industry changes again.....can profit.
I am also a photographer. The death of film started wholesale in about 2003/2004....with the first huge wave of affordable 3-4 megapixle cameras available for novices. For pros....they were already on 2nd generation SLRs with about 2X that number of pixels......film sales slid off a cliff....and a lot of chemicals went off the market.
However......
By about 2008/2009.....a mere 4-5 years later.....the vast majority of pro and serious amateur pjotographers I have seen....myself included.....stratified to using digital fully for color...and a great many went back to film for B&W.
Cut to the past five years....all but one of two B&W chemicals are back on the market. Film is as plentiful and cheap as it ever was.....just in fewer locations (the last survivor stores)....and virtually all of the prime camera mfgs...Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax/Ricoh etc.....make brand new film cameras.
Virtually every high school and college art programs in my area and others....have their beginning photo classes starting with B&W film.
There is just nothing like B&W film for what it does.
Those who had the critical mass in their photo business to still be alive when the pendulum swung again.....are kicking ass.
For those who know photo and film....I just picked up 4 rolls of Ilford HP5 and 2 rolls of Kodak Tri-X Two-day 400....for about $6 each three days ago at my local.....AND a batch of Accufine developer....which until three years ago...had been out of production for 8-10 years.
There were three college guys in there....buying brand new...Paterson film developing tanks.
What comes around goes around!
So like the old euphemism.....location, location, location.....its also timing, timing, timing.
Its all about the market research! Ray |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:39 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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My daughter just asked me for a film camera for her advanced class..I wonder if anyone there will appreciate my titanium body F2AS from my newspaper days in the 70s?
_________________
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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ultralite
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 570
Location: GA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| scrivyscriv wrote: |
Let me post a few of my young whippersnapper observations.. as a 33 year old, daily driving VW'er, and a successful small business owner in the recent past.
Running a small business is hard.. STARTING a small business is harder. There are life compromises that have to be made; do you choose to spend time with the business, or your family, or your own hobbies? How much time can you spend every day doing each? How long will your family tolerate burning the candle at both ends, before they themselves become burned?
My observation of the VW owners I see interacting in my local area (Memphis) is that there are some very distinct groups of owners. Some like to tinker themselves, but are lost beyond turning a screwdriver. Others have ambition to work on their own stuff, and can start working, but need help figuring out how to get from A to B on VW specific work. Others still just dive in and go whole hog repairing and maintaining their vehicles. Each of those groups has its own different set of needs from a VW shop. Parts, service, support, advice, roadside service, house calls all come to mind.
I have not just seen a decline in VW shops or stores. It is a creeping cancer in brick & mortar shops, especially if the shop performs an obsolete function - think TV and VCR repair, photo supply stores, etc. Or just mom & pop stores in general. I used to work in professional photography, and we were pretty good. Somehow my number got listed as a camera repair shop and I still today get a steady stream of calls and voicemails, usually from an older person or someone not local to the area, of people looking for cameras and supplies. I was buying some film from our last photo supply store several years ago at their going-out-of-business sale, and remarked to the owner that I was surprised to see them closing, when they were literally the last camera and supply store in town, bar none. He sort of smiled at me and said "Well I wouldn't be closing if there were money to be made." So - I knew there was a demand, but coming from the horse's mouth, that demand did not sustain itself. The point is, you may see VWs in the area, and know they need what you can offer, but they may not be enough to keep you running as a full time business.
The few resilient places that come to mind are all specialized, niche shops. Cooker's V-dubs. Rimco. Raby. Hoffman. I think Chris Vallone breaks that mold, but he's got a large population density to pull from.
Those are just a few thoughts, in no particular order. I'd love to offer some kind of aircooled shop work in my area of Memphis but numerous reasons have kept me from putting out a shingle. I think the best way to wade in to a business like this is word of mouth grassroots promotion.. you can take the customers you want, and tell the leeches to take a hike. Start small, out of your shop or garage on your land. Cleanliness and neatness go very, very far with clients and their decision to favorably talk about you to their friends; competency is almost taken for granted now days until it's too late. On-time appointments and early deliveries on jobs done. |
Nice well thought out post! I will add one thing to what you said.
Since I work almost exclusively in an industry that is "thought" by a great many to be obsolete...and was predicted about 3-5 times since 1995 to have been totally gone by now........screen printing.....I think there is sometjing key yo be learned.
I no longer for example do much "T-shirt" work which is what most people think my industry is....but its never really been my end of it....I work strictly in medical, industrial and electronic printing. My industry has grown about 300%....seriously......since 2000 and is expanding explosively in certain areas...and no....most of it will never be replaced (only augmented by)...digital processes. The physics and chemistry are beyond what digital printing can totally replace.
My key point being......and this is a folllw up to your photography point.....sometimes as you think an industry is dying.....and as its just melting away in front of your eyes like the phoyography supply shops.....as it reaches a certain point over a period of time.....the industry changes again......and those who have the money to stay in business and to strategically......be the last man standing when the industry changes again.....can profit.
I am also a photographer. The death of film started wholesale in about 2003/2004....with the first huge wave of affordable 3-4 megapixle cameras available for novices. For pros....they were already on 2nd generation SLRs with about 2X that number of pixels......film sales slid off a cliff....and a lot of chemicals went off the market.
However......
By about 2008/2009.....a mere 4-5 years later.....the vast majority of pro and serious amateur pjotographers I have seen....myself included.....stratified to using digital fully for color...and a great many went back to film for B&W.
Cut to the past five years....all but one of two B&W chemicals are back on the market. Film is as plentiful and cheap as it ever was.....just in fewer locations (the last survivor stores)....and virtually all of the prime camera mfgs...Nikon, Canon, Minolta, Pentax/Ricoh etc.....make brand new film cameras.
Virtually every high school and college art programs in my area and others....have their beginning photo classes starting with B&W film.
There is just nothing like B&W film for what it does.
Those who had the critical mass in their photo business to still be alive when the pendulum swung again.....are kicking ass.
For those who know photo and film....I just picked up 4 rolls of Ilford HP5 and 2 rolls of Kodak Tri-X Two-day 400....for about $6 each three days ago at my local.....AND a batch of Accufine developer....which until three years ago...had been out of production for 8-10 years.
There were three college guys in there....buying brand new...Paterson film developing tanks.
What comes around goes around!
So like the old euphemism.....location, location, location.....its also timing, timing, timing.
Its all about the market research! Ray |
I was going to say something along these lines but not as well 😄.
I’ve spent my career in technology. I “collect” predictions because they’ve become hilarious for me.
I think you’ve received good advice on small business from folks involved in it.
I think you have some good things going for you. The cost of living in a nice place (I’ve been there.) With the internet, a wide audience. I think the idea of having a VW specialty that can be shipped is a good idea as well.
Best of luck on your research and efforts.
_________________
Godspeed
'76 Beetle (sold)
'69 Beetle (sold)
'72 BMW 2002 (RIP)
'69 Westy
'02 BMW wagon AWD w/stick shift(sold)
'67 Beetle (sold) |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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If you bill out 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a yeAr at $100 per hour you will just get by on running a shop. You will astounded how quickly business overhead adds up for a physical location.
That means you will need to book 6-8 jobs a week to survive on Bay business....is that realistic in your area??
Your clients have to have the need and the money of course.
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Hoody
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1948
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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Definitely not. What are you going to repair Buses with for parts? You will be your own worst liability. There are no available parts anymore worth a damn for these rigs. Not from a business standpoint. The people who care about quality have stashed the parts and don’t need someone else to fix their Bus. It’s a nice pipe dream. But the fact is all of the shops would not be going out of business if there was still money to be made. You’d be better off with the “super tuner” crowd.
Last edited by Hoody on Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| Abscate wrote: |
If you bill out 40 hours a week for 50 weeks a yeAr at $100 per hour you will just get by on running a shop. You will astounded how quickly business overhead adds up for a physical location.
That means you will need to book 6-8 jobs a week to survive on Bay business....is that realistic in your area??
Your clients have to have the need and the money of course. |
Agree....this is wby I thknk you should not work with just bays. You can specialize in bays. But its the general aircooled engine tune up work, brake work etc....that can be 50% of the bread and butter.
Ray |
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danfromsyr
Samba Member
Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 15144
Location: Syracuse, NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:25 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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and then the other 40hrs+ a week that aren't billable hours.
meeting with potential clients, meeting with new clients, meeting with completed (billing) clients, meeting with jack ass clients (sinch-u-was in there something unrelated went bad).
sourcing parts for clients, chasing down the right part when the wrong part arrives. sourcing new clients at events, shows, the mall or general advertising avenues, losing billable time from an illness or (job or non-job related) injury
hiring 1 employee to help out,
hiring 3 employees to pay for the 1st employees administrative and overhead costs of employment.
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| Abscate wrote: |
| These are the reasons we have words like “wanker” |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:38 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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Yeah, you are going to work 80 hours a week to start, and maybe get down to 60 plus weekends once you get efficient.
You'll be amazed how much time billing and collecting money takes too.
A mom and pop oil changes, brake jobs, with an air cooled on the side? I think that's the path I would take. A flat bed and a truck to let you retrieve down vehicles IFF you are good at troubleshooting.
Chris' model works because his clients
-have deep pockets
- don't mind if the vacuum advance pipe has the wrong chiral bend
-are nice relaxed people, unlike the usual rich car crowd
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Wasted youth
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2012
Posts: 5134
Location: California's Hot and Smoggy Central Valley
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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Film, Paper, Chemistry... Freestyle and/or Photographer's Formulary
Local full service business with darkroom and huge line of supplies backed by deeply knowledgeable people... Looking Glass Photo, Berkeley
Obsolete parts... EBay New Stuff... B&H
VW Business Fantasy... When Interstate teams up with Gerson, CB Performance Cal Worthington. He opens a used VW lot of the finished works.
Fawk! ... another useless post by me! |
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customcityjim
Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2011
Posts: 114
Location: Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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As DeMarc...the original poster noted....Bethany Imports in Oklahoma City is closing. In fact...in reality they are already closed. 
I have been going to Bethany...since they were actually called Bethany Auto Salvage since about 1979 or 1980.
They list they have been in business for 25 years as Bethany Imports....but that puts them at 1992...and I was going to this location since I had my first VW 411.
I dropped in the day after Christmas to inquire when they were going to actually close....and the boys were actually cleaning out their extensive parts room, taking inventory and loading up bins. They noted that technically they are already closed.
All of the classic salvage shops along this half mile section...some having been there since the oil field days in buildings that date to the 1930's...were all clearing out the day after Christmas. The city took all of the land via eminent domain. Gentrification.
I have no problem with that as long as they re-use some of the old buildings that can be like they have done elsewhere.
They said that if they decide to re-open....it will no longer be a salvage yard...but new parts only for VW and foreign.
For the OKC peoples....Just some pictures for posterity. I hope they cut down their cool old "repurposed signs" and take it with them....and re-purpose them again. i have no idea what kind of business was originally in this location 75 years ago....but they ranged from stores to hotels etc.
Don't let the EMPI parts in the pcitures fool you. While having as many modern cheap parts as anyone...they had LOADS of NOS and hard to find, good quality parts.
I thought it odd...that in the back of the showroom at thanksgiving...they had STACKS of original VW NOS parts in dealer boxes...ranging from valves to rods to transmission parts from 36 horse through type 4. Parts that are normally well hidden in the parts room....but they were already cleaning out and getting ready to move out.
My last purchase there was a Yon-Tay brand, angled, oval hole side mount antenna for some type 1 and 4. While they are a Taiwanese auto radio antenna company still in business....I have found their quality to be excellent especially in the past....and this antenna had been hanging in the same position for at least 15-18 years.
I fondled it every time I am home and in town...and always planned to buy it as a spare...but only when I needed it. It was $9.95....old stock pricing!
Ray |
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914guy
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2008
Posts: 167
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:49 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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My son works for the local vw parts house. Their business used to include engine rebuilds for all air cooled VWs. My son started online sales of VW parts and the business has tripled in revenue and repairs are a thing of the past.
Another local place does engine rebuilds and installation. The owner's brother has a machine shop that takes care of that part of engine rebuilding. That place generally buys parts from the place my son works. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| 914guy wrote: |
My son works for the local vw parts house. Their business used to include engine rebuilds for all air cooled VWs. My son started online sales of VW parts and the business has tripled in revenue and repairs are a thing of the past.
Another local place does engine rebuilds and installation. The owner's brother has a machine shop that takes care of that part of engine rebuilding. That place generally buys parts from the place my son works. |
Yep.....That was kind of the point I was making too......a page back or so.
There are really only a few places in the Oklahoma City metro area that deal with classic VWs. The one I pointed out above was parts only.....about equal parts used, new and NOS. Another shop about 15 miles east.....does....or did....rebuilds, tune ups, service etc.....mostly vw but watercooled and aircooled. Eddie 's imports.....engine builds, performance builds some water cooled, mostly air cooled
I would network with these people if I were opening a shop in OKC. Find out what they do not do....that you do. Send them some work and hopefully they send you some work. Specialize on the side. Gotta pay the bills until you make a name for yourself. Ray |
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borninabus
Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006
Posts: 4539
Location: Arizona Highways
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| Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:39 am Post subject: Re: New Oklahoma Bay Window Shop! |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| My daughter just asked me for a film camera for her advanced class..I wonder if anyone there will appreciate my titanium body F2AS from my newspaper days in the 70s? |
i would!
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88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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