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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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 Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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So after spending time with the no shocks on 4” narrowed T1 beam in my Square, I’m not a fan of the handling and perhaps minor safety issues the current beam provides. The “horns” were cut off the frame so the P.O. could get real low with it and i’ve since raised it a little by swapping out drop spindles for stock height. While there’s some relief there, I still have no need for scraping things on a daily basis. I’d like to go back to a T3 beam and i’m wondering if the lack of support from the missing horns is so major that it’s not going to be a good idea...anyone out there dealt with this, is so how did you solve it?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| There's no use in stating how STUPID the PO was, but driving around without shocks is not a minor safety issue, it's a major issue. Shocks are not about comfort, they are there to keep your tires in contact with the road. I don't know if you could mount up a wider Type 1 beam with shock mounts to your current setup, but if not, time to replace the frame head and put a stock beam back in. |
Ya, I’m not a big fan of the safety, or lack there of, as of now I ride it about town 25-35mph, but I’m itching to get on the highway...Airkewld makes a T1 set up, but it requires cutting out holes in the frunk, and this square is in nice shape aside from front suspension that I don’t really want to go there.
Replacing the frame head sounds like a lot of work, would the T3 beam not be properly supported with the missing horns? Gotta be better than what I’m dealing with now, yes?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Cashed wrote: |
Ya, I’m not a big fan of the safety, or lack there of, as of now I ride it about town 25-35mph, but I’m itching to get on the highway...Airkewld makes a T1 set up, but it requires cutting out holes in the frunk, and this square is in nice shape aside from front suspension that I don’t really want to go there.
Replacing the frame head sounds like a lot of work, would the T3 beam not be properly supported with the missing horns? Gotta be better than what I’m dealing with now, yes? |
We have made the towers shorter before for someone doesn't need a certain amount of drop that the taller towers allow for.
_________________
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| Cashed wrote: |
Ya, I’m not a big fan of the safety, or lack there of, as of now I ride it about town 25-35mph, but I’m itching to get on the highway...Airkewld makes a T1 set up, but it requires cutting out holes in the frunk, and this square is in nice shape aside from front suspension that I don’t really want to go there.
Replacing the frame head sounds like a lot of work, would the T3 beam not be properly supported with the missing horns? Gotta be better than what I’m dealing with now, yes? |
We have made the towers shorter before for someone doesn't need a certain amount of drop that the taller towers allow for. |
If that’s the case, i’d love to hear how I can over come cutting and still have a respectable, safe front end. I do like the tucked look, and a lower stance, but it’s not as important to me as a safe ride. Should I call the shop, if so, who do I ask for?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Cashed wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| Cashed wrote: |
Ya, I’m not a big fan of the safety, or lack there of, as of now I ride it about town 25-35mph, but I’m itching to get on the highway...Airkewld makes a T1 set up, but it requires cutting out holes in the frunk, and this square is in nice shape aside from front suspension that I don’t really want to go there.
Replacing the frame head sounds like a lot of work, would the T3 beam not be properly supported with the missing horns? Gotta be better than what I’m dealing with now, yes? |
We have made the towers shorter before for someone doesn't need a certain amount of drop that the taller towers allow for. |
If that’s the case, i’d love to hear how I can over come cutting and still have a respectable, safe front end. I do like the tucked look, and a lower stance, but it’s not as important to me as a safe ride. Should I call the shop, if so, who do I ask for? |
Pete will answer the phone, he will be able to answer any questions and guide you down the right path.
_________________
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Ace
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003
Posts: 1903
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
| There's no use in stating how STUPID the PO was, but driving around without shocks is not a minor safety issue, it's a major issue. Shocks are not about comfort, they are there to keep your tires in contact with the road. I don't know if you could mount up a wider Type 1 beam with shock mounts to your current setup, but if not, time to replace the frame head and put a stock beam back in. |
ignorance is bliss.
Pete is the guy typing the responce to you and referring to himself in third person. There is a reason he doesn't want to discuss it in an open forum and have you call him directly. |
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:32 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Ace wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| There's no use in stating how STUPID the PO was, but driving around without shocks is not a minor safety issue, it's a major issue. Shocks are not about comfort, they are there to keep your tires in contact with the road. I don't know if you could mount up a wider Type 1 beam with shock mounts to your current setup, but if not, time to replace the frame head and put a stock beam back in. |
ignorance is bliss.
Pete is the guy typing the responce to you and referring to himself in third person. There is a reason he doesn't want to discuss it in an open forum and have you call him directly. |
OK, I’ll bite, why doesn’t Pete want to discuss this in an open forum...
Is the ignorance statement related to the quote above, me, Pete, you...?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:14 am Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Ace wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| There's no use in stating how STUPID the PO was, but driving around without shocks is not a minor safety issue, it's a major issue. Shocks are not about comfort, they are there to keep your tires in contact with the road. I don't know if you could mount up a wider Type 1 beam with shock mounts to your current setup, but if not, time to replace the frame head and put a stock beam back in. |
ignorance is bliss.
Pete is the guy typing the responce to you and referring to himself in third person. There is a reason he doesn't want to discuss it in an open forum and have you call him directly. |
| Airkewld wrote: |
| Transparency is the only way Airkewld and its team does business. |
Pete's words from his feedback thread...if his words are true - why does he refer to himself in 3rd person?
I have personal experience with both Pete and his company and his tactics don't seem to have changed much in three years.
You should swap back to a Type 3 front beam - the ride will be better and you can get narrowed control arms and drop spindles for the stock beam. It's more expensive but it'll ride better.
Should you decide to stick with the Type 1 beam - you can do better than fancy paint and promises. |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Cashed wrote: |
| Ace wrote: |
| Multi69s wrote: |
| There's no use in stating how STUPID the PO was, but driving around without shocks is not a minor safety issue, it's a major issue. Shocks are not about comfort, they are there to keep your tires in contact with the road. I don't know if you could mount up a wider Type 1 beam with shock mounts to your current setup, but if not, time to replace the frame head and put a stock beam back in. |
ignorance is bliss.
Pete is the guy typing the responce to you and referring to himself in third person. There is a reason he doesn't want to discuss it in an open forum and have you call him directly. |
OK, I’ll bite, why doesn’t Pete want to discuss this in an open forum...
Is the ignorance statement related to the quote above, me, Pete, you...? |
Because it needs to be said, Mike Johnson, Mike Murphy and Pete Skiba post under the same account. Conspiracy theories. Airkewld is a team, not just one person.
| Quote: |
We have made the towers shorter before for someone doesn't need a certain amount of drop that the taller towers allow for. |
I could and can discuss on a forum, he mentioned calling, don't alter or skew his or my comments for your entertainment.
| Quote: |
| Should I call the shop, if so, who do I ask for? |
Pete Skiba
_________________
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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I’ve lurked enough on the samba to recognize keyboard antognists and those who are truly helpful...I’m still asking the same question and thus far I’ve got this far -
Replace the current beam...OK, got it.
Put a T3 beam back in it’s place
1 -replace the frame head to do this, then find a complete front suspension.
2 - Just put a T3 beam back in...but no one has said if it can/should be done with the lower frame supports cut off. Can I weld new ones in place?
Put a T1 beam in, but a better one that what’s there
1 - Airkewld seems to have the ability to make what I need/want in place of what’s there
2 - a couple of people have expressed their “thoughts” on Airkewld without any substantiated facts on why I should believe their point of view.
Anyone else with a similar problem as mine and how they’ve overcome it? I’m more interested in hearing from those who have worked through this issue, rather then pointing out idiots and grudges.
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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oxsign
Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2006
Posts: 607
Location: Sanford, FL
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Cashed wrote: |
I’ve lurked enough on the samba to recognize keyboard antognists and those who are truly helpful...I’m still asking the same question and thus far I’ve got this far -
Replace the current beam...OK, got it.
Put a T3 beam back in it’s place
1 -replace the frame head to do this, then find a complete front suspension.
2 - Just put a T3 beam back in...but no one has said if it can/should be done with the lower frame supports cut off. Can I weld new ones in place?
Put a T1 beam in, but a better one that what’s there
1 - Airkewld seems to have the ability to make what I need/want in place of what’s there
2 - a couple of people have expressed their “thoughts” on Airkewld without any substantiated facts on why I should believe their point of view.
Anyone else with a similar problem as mine and how they’ve overcome it? I’m more interested in hearing from those who have worked through this issue, rather then pointing out idiots and grudges. |
There are a few people on here that make T1 beams for T3. You could get another T1 beam narrowed 2" with shock towers and be completely safe and comfortable. You could get ahold of a couple junkyards like Blair & sons, west coast core, boo-koi-z, etc (just go through the classifieds) and see if they have a scrap pan they can cut the horns off of and you can weld them back on (if that's something that you're capable of doing). You do have a couple options to go with this.
It would not be safe to just put a T3 beam back in without the bottom support straps/bolts to hold it in place securely.
_________________
1971 Squareback, fully bagged, 1776.
Build thread here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| oxsign wrote: |
| Cashed wrote: |
I’ve lurked enough on the samba to recognize keyboard antognists and those who are truly helpful...I’m still asking the same question and thus far I’ve got this far -
Replace the current beam...OK, got it.
Put a T3 beam back in it’s place
1 -replace the frame head to do this, then find a complete front suspension.
2 - Just put a T3 beam back in...but no one has said if it can/should be done with the lower frame supports cut off. Can I weld new ones in place?
Put a T1 beam in, but a better one that what’s there
1 - Airkewld seems to have the ability to make what I need/want in place of what’s there
2 - a couple of people have expressed their “thoughts” on Airkewld without any substantiated facts on why I should believe their point of view.
Anyone else with a similar problem as mine and how they’ve overcome it? I’m more interested in hearing from those who have worked through this issue, rather then pointing out idiots and grudges. |
There are a few people on here that make T1 beams for T3. You could get another T1 beam narrowed 2" with shock towers and be completely safe and comfortable. You could get ahold of a couple junkyards like Blair & sons, west coast core, boo-koi-z, etc (just go through the classifieds) and see if they have a scrap pan they can cut the horns off of and you can weld them back on (if that's something that you're capable of doing). You do have a couple options to go with this.
It would not be safe to just put a T3 beam back in without the bottom support straps/bolts to hold it in place securely. |
OK - that’s good info and appreciated.
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Multi69s
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 5364
Location: Lefty, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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Cashed,
Can you throw up some pics of your current front end, and how it connects to the frame head? Compared to many on this forum (Type 3) I am a newbie, however on Type 1s I have had many more years experience, especially on its suspension. I have setup up the type 1 from anything from autocross to off road. Even though the Type 3 beam will give you a better ride then the Type 1, I think that staying with the Type 1 beam would be more cost effective. However, to advise you any further, I really think that we need to see pics of your current setup.
_________________
69 road Bug 2110
73 Squareback - 2L, T4, Automatic W/ AC
Gone, but many fond memories 69 Baja Bug 2010 - 5 Rib Bus Transaxle
Gone but not forgotten 72 Baja Bug 2010
My builds
T4 into Squareback http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=458944&highlight=
Auto Trans Rebuild http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=516066&highlight=
AC in Squareback https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight= |
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Multi69s wrote: |
Cashed,
Can you throw up some pics of your current front end, and how it connects to the frame head? Compared to many on this forum (Type 3) I am a newbie, however on Type 1s I have had many more years experience, especially on its suspension. I have setup up the type 1 from anything from autocross to off road. Even though the Type 3 beam will give you a better ride then the Type 1, I think that staying with the Type 1 beam would be more cost effective. However, to advise you any further, I really think that we need to see pics of your current setup. |
As requested
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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blues90
Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2009
Posts: 1912
Location: Hollywood ,CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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Pardon my complete ignorance . What the hell secures a type 1 beam to a type 3 if the frame horns are removed?
I had a 66 bug yet it was so long ago I don't recall anything about the way the beam was fastened on a T-1. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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That swap looks...interesting.
You CAN go back to Type 3 front end but it'll require welding a new frame head, finding a late beam (shouldn't be hard where you are), and the correct parts to get there. It's not going to be cheap and if you want it low and narrow - the cost will go up based on what you want in the end. Joel Mitchell (boo koo z) is in Washington and he's probably got everything you'd need to get it back to stock.
As Multi69 stated, the Type 3 front end will ride better than a Type 1 beam - simply because the Type 3 beam is designed for the car. There is a night and day difference in the way they ride.
In the event you go with the Type 1 beam - get in touch with Valley Autowerks in Virginia...get another opinion about what you're looking to accomplish. I've seen Sam's work (on a Type 3) in person and it's nice. I've never bought anything from him but if I were in your shoes, I would. |
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:28 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| blues90 wrote: |
Pardon my complete ignorance . What the hell secures a type 1 beam to a type 3 if the frame horns are removed?
I had a 66 bug yet it was so long ago I don't recall anything about the way the beam was fastened on a T-1. |
From what I can tell, bubble gum, two large bolts, an assortment of washers and a can of physics defying spray.
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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Cashed
Samba Member
Joined: June 04, 2017
Posts: 77
Location: Camas, WA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
That swap looks...interesting.
You CAN go back to Type 3 front end but it'll require welding a new frame head, finding a late beam (shouldn't be hard where you are), and the correct parts to get there. It's not going to be cheap and if you want it low and narrow - the cost will go up based on what you want in the end. Joel Mitchell (boo koo z) is in Washington and he's probably got everything you'd need to get it back to stock.
As Multi69 stated, the Type 3 front end will ride better than a Type 1 beam - simply because the Type 3 beam is designed for the car. There is a night and day difference in the way they ride.
In the event you go with the Type 1 beam - get in touch with Valley Autowerks in Virginia...get another opinion about what you're looking to accomplish. I've seen Sam's work (on a Type 3) in person and it's nice. I've never bought anything from him but if I were in your shoes, I would. |
Instead of an entire frame head, how about new horns?
_________________
1971 Type 2 - Westfalia - https://vw-type2-id.xyz/mplate/12207380
1966 Type 1 - Sunroof “Cream Puff” - sold
1970 Type 2 - Tintop Camper - sold
1972 Type 3 - FI/Automatic “Kürbis” - sold |
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notchback
Insensitive Jerk
Joined: December 16, 2003
Posts: 7024
Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: 72 Square w/T1 beam w/adjustments to Frame. Can I go back to T3? |
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| Cashed wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
That swap looks...interesting.
You CAN go back to Type 3 front end but it'll require welding a new frame head, finding a late beam (shouldn't be hard where you are), and the correct parts to get there. It's not going to be cheap and if you want it low and narrow - the cost will go up based on what you want in the end. Joel Mitchell (boo koo z) is in Washington and he's probably got everything you'd need to get it back to stock.
As Multi69 stated, the Type 3 front end will ride better than a Type 1 beam - simply because the Type 3 beam is designed for the car. There is a night and day difference in the way they ride.
In the event you go with the Type 1 beam - get in touch with Valley Autowerks in Virginia...get another opinion about what you're looking to accomplish. I've seen Sam's work (on a Type 3) in person and it's nice. I've never bought anything from him but if I were in your shoes, I would. |
Instead of an entire frame head, how about new horns? |
As the old saying goes, Do it right and cry once.
_________________
| zeen wrote: |
| Arguing with johnnypan is like mud-wrestling a pig. After a while you realize he just enjoys playing in the mud, winning the contest is not the point. |
FU#3 |
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