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What's wrong with this picture?
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:23 pm    Post subject: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Looking at the following pictures of a just rebuilt 1971 Bus transmission, what do you see that's wrong?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

I'll play. The face of the housing where the starter goes is painted. The starter needs that to be clean metal for grounding purposes. (If I'm wrong then I read somewhere something wildly inaccurate, and I was dumb enough to believe it)
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Then why is it that Eric at Transworks says out of 900 transmissions he’s done he’s only had like two complaints? He always paints the starter pad.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

They misspelled your name on the toe tag Laughing but I’m with Spike. Was all that paint necessary? Seems like no paint at all would be better Think or is that powdercoat?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:42 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

I dunno, I always hit the starter pad and starter face with a wire brush or sand paper to get to fresh unoxidized contact...

though I also often add a Gnd cable from the starter bolt to the chassis.


I really hate starter issues

I'm starting to solder on a pigtail to the Key/start spade as I've had a few of them loosen up on me and pop off.
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Eric thinks the starter gets it ground well enough through the mounting stud. He says that an unpainted starter face that’s magnesium will soon corrode anyhow.
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Pepperbilly
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:49 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Well the most obvious is that the entire transaxle is painted black. Believe it came from the factory unpainted in just raw metal. That is how I am restoring my ‘67. Want the stock look.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Quote:
Eric thinks the starter gets it ground well enough through the mounting stud.


I am with Eric on that as long as the engine is clean where the D head bolt nut goes on, and the ground strap has a good connection to the nut holding it on too.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

SGKent wrote:
Quote:
Eric thinks the starter gets it ground well enough through the mounting stud.


I am with Eric on that as long as the engine is clean where the D head bolt nut goes on, and the ground strap has a good connection to the nut holding it on too.


Dang it Steve, I thought you’d solve Gary’s puzzle for all of us.
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Tom Powell
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

The bolt hole or stud hole and threads are wallowed? Because I can't see daylight I'll guess that a stud should be in that hole?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

They forgot to paint the cv flanges. Or is it the 1970s vinyl floor. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

It’s not your trans! They sent you something completely different Laughing Think
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

There are no mount ears and it looks like it has a extra mount hole at the starter
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Then why is it that Eric at Transworks says out of 900 transmissions he’s done he’s only had like two complaints? He always paints the starter pad.


because that was from the 2 fools that didn't clean the bell-to-engine mount and the starter pad
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

I've got it - the bus and engine are missing.........

photobucket worked to show the photos?
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Well I just spent 45 minutes trying to prove that the pad needs to be clean and unpainted. I measured resistance through the starter both ways with uncertain results.

For me, I makes sence to have the best bond possible but here I am with hat in hand unable to prove it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Just makes sense to me that since the starter needs lots of current, you should have as much conductive surface area on the ground side as possible. He should mask that area before painting it. He may know trannies, but he doesn't know electricity. Bet I can guess what Telford would say.....
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:01 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Well I just spent 45 minutes trying to prove that the pad needs to be clean and unpainted. I measured resistance through the starter both ways with uncertain results.

For me, I makes sence to have the best bond possible but here I am with hat in hand unable to prove it.


Starter motors can pull up to 300 amps during operation, so it's not like a standard multimeter can mimic that kind of current draw. I think the electrons need a safe and easy way in, and a clean base flange certainly helps that.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

aeromech wrote:
Then why is it that Eric at Transworks says out of 900 transmissions he’s done he’s only had like two complaints? He always paints the starter pad.


I'm guessing the nice clean stud serves as a decent ground for the first 5 years.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? Reply with quote

Starter System Quiz

1 - Does a starter need a lot of current? Yes.
2 - Does resistance vary inversely with contact area? Yes.
3 - Do VW starters need the best connections possible to work right, every time? Yes.
4 - Is paint normally an insulator? Yes.
5 - Did the factory paint the starter pad? No.
6 - Did the factory know what they were doing? Yes (generally - see notes below).

So - quiz: should you (a) paint your starter pad, or (b) scrape it and the starter flange as clean as possible? (five points for the correct answer)

Ans: ______

Notes: Q6 is answered 'generally', because if they got it perfect the first time, there would be no need for changes from one model year to the next.
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