| Author |
Message |
KentABQ 
Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2016
Posts: 2406
Location: Albuquerque NM
|
 Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:33 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
 |
|
Telford...
What is your opinion on using dielectric grease on electrical connections?
I've seen comments for and against on TheSamba, but have never thought of asking the expert.
One mechanic said to use it sparingly, and not on the mating electrical surfaces; only on the external connections. And another said to slather it on. 
_________________
-Kent-
1976 Riviera, 1.8l FI chrome yellow VAN - "Chloe"
"I must say, how can you be in a bad mood driving this vehicle full of vibrant color.
Cars of today are so bland in comparison. It's like driving a celebration!" ---WildIdea
Bus ownership via emoticons:
         ---williamM |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 41031
Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
A) Black paints often contain lampblack. Lampblack is carbon dust, if so it is conductive.
B) The original question is not, "what is the best way to insure maximum starter ground," but rather "what is wrong with this picture?" The answer is nothing is wrong with the picture - the starter will have a good electrical path - if you don't believe me, drop a starter D bolt, nut, washer, and a ground strap all together across the battery terminals and watch what happens. I promise you that you will not be able to use that bolt again, and if you pick it up while it is glowing it will take months for your hand to heal, if it ever does at all without leaving you branded.
Oh - and BTW, once the magnesium in the trans case oxidizes it will create a coating that is non-conductive. Magnesium Oxide is used as an electrical insulator. Look it up.
_________________
“Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin
Last edited by SGKent on Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodbuster
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Besides the painted starter pad. The upper starter bolt/engine mount hole look like it is elongated. It also looks like there are no plastic protector rings behind the threaded collar retainers at the drive flanges. These work in connection with the rubber rings that should be under those retainers to keep dirt out. And help to minimize corrosion between the dissimilar metals. Other than that, ooohhh shiny. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
I love watching myths get started and perpetuated.
By the way, 95% of engine wear occurs on startup.
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spike0180
Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2015
Posts: 2269
Location: Detroit, Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
I love watching myths get started and perpetuated.
By the way, 95% of engine wear occurs on startup. |
lol I'd like to point out, that I noted I had no genuine source and may be making crap up.
On another note, that picture seems to be doing a mighty fine job at being a picture. I can still see it and everything.
_________________
Brutis Patches Izabich: 1970 VW Transporter - 1776cc DP
Current State: Projects never truly end...
Location: Grosse Pointe, Michigan
Other cars: 2003 F150, 2003 Jetta GLI vr6-6sp
Sambastic: adj; the quality of being nit picky, elitist, expecting everyone to do things the way they believe is best with no regard to situation, "sambastic" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3551
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| KentPS wrote: |
What is your opinion on using dielectric grease on electrical connections?
One mechanic said to use it sparingly, and not on the mating electrical surfaces; only on the external connections. And another said to slather it on. |
Because VW uses metals like brass for their electrical terminals, and because brass oxidizes slowly, after cleaning, dielectric grease seems to keep these connections working longer. It is also effective in lamp sockets (specifically taillights). Apply to both the bulb shell and socket.
I use a thin film - just enough to coat the surface. Apply with a small brush. I generally apply before connection assembly. The connection force seems to wipe it clean at the points of contact.
For high current connections (battery, starter, ground strap), I use a conductive grease made for the purpose.
Obviously, the connections need to be clean and shiny first. The grease only keeps them that way.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodbuster
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| You could go back and forth in discussion putting out electrical and mechanical theory about grounds and electron flow. Starter draw and the proprieties of black paint till the cows come home. I just cut through all of it and ask a simple question. Did the factory apply any paint on that surface in the manufacturing process? To the best of my knowledge the answer to that is no. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4855
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| sodbuster wrote: |
| ... The upper starter bolt/engine mount hole look like it is elongated. ... |
That's what I said!
Is it a bolt hole or a threaded hole for a stud? If it's for a stud there will be repairs required.
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chochobeef
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2013
Posts: 811
Location: Ft. Worth, Texas
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| aeromech wrote: |
Looking at the following pictures of a just rebuilt 1971 Bus transmission, what do you see that's wrong?
|
Whats wrong is that there is a pink trolly jack on a linoleom floor. Terrible combination there. 
Can always just add an extra 4awg ground cable to one of the bolts/nuts and not worry about it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1109
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
sodbuster
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: wherever my baywindow takes me.
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Tom Powell wrote: |
| sodbuster wrote: |
| ... The upper starter bolt/engine mount hole look like it is elongated. ... |
That's what I said!
Is it a bolt hole or a threaded hole for a stud? If it's for a stud there will be repairs required.
Aloha
tp |
It's a bolt hole. Top passenger side engine mounting bolt. It also passes through and mounts the starter. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
timvw7476
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2013
Posts: 2196
Location: seattle
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
We can all agree this 3 rib is junk.
I will pay 1/3 Air shipping fee from CA to WA to take it off someone's hands.
No core charge, right? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
I love watching myths get started and perpetuated.
By the way, 95% of engine wear occurs on startup. |
The SAE has their own definition of cold start and it is not what most people take it to be. I have long felt that cold running is very detrimental to an automotive engine. Seen a lot of evidence of such first hand. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
You can buy a $995 pre-start oil pressure kit so that startup wear can be eliminated. If you care about your engine you will do this
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
|
| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
| You can buy a $995 pre-start oil pressure kit so that startup wear can be eliminated. If you care about your engine you will do this |
Since "start up" wear is caused by the condensation that develops in an engine between startup and when the oil gets hot enough to begin vaporizing the water and gasoline from the oil, a pre-start oil pressure kit isn't going to help much. A good crankcase ventilation system coupled with a block heater and a properly working thermostat are the things that will greatly reduce "start up" wear. In the good old days of motoring, during a cold spell where the overnight temperatures dropped into the teens or lower motor oil would end up being contaminated with 10% or so of water and maybe as much as 10% gasoline causing the creations of acids that ate at the bearings, rings, and cylinder walls. Though the gasoline did also thin the oil so the engine would crank and thus was not a total negative.
Thirty five years ago, I met a guy that drove his VW Bug daily throughout the winter in Fairbanks, Alaska. During the winters he changed his oil weekly because the water build up would "freeze" the oil and prevent starting if he did not.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22633
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:55 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
I just made that kit up. Do I have to find my box of #sarcasm tags again?
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
williamM
Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2008
Posts: 4333
Location: southwest Arizona
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
frozen oil is a real thing- My Dad flew C-47's and B-17's to England over the "top" And they landed in Greenland or Iceland- one of those delightful places for gas and an overnight- when landed- these engines had been fitted with a fuel dilution system that bled av gas into the oil to thin it out for re-start in the morning - after restart - they would watch the tank vents till the fuel boiled out of the oil and then off to England. Believe this system was replaced with heater tents and other type heaters to thin the oils later-- maybe after "issues" with the diluted oil on COLD metal- More research required--
Just a starter point - for inquiring minds.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.
opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.
Don't step in any! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
I just made that kit up. Do I have to find my box of #sarcasm tags again?
|
i don't think everyone on here realizes you are a smart arse. 95% of them figure it out on start up....
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music!
Last edited by TomWesty on Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TomWesty
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007
Posts: 3482
Location: Wyoming,USA
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| williamM wrote: |
frozen oil is a real thing- My Dad flew C-47's and B-17's to England over the "top" And they landed in Greenland or Iceland- one of those delightful places for gas and an overnight- when landed- these engines had been fitted with a fuel dilution system that bled av gas into the oil to thin it out for re-start in the morning - after restart - they would watch the tank vents till the fuel boiled out of the oil and then off to England. Believe this system was replaced with heater tents and other type heaters to thin the oils later-- maybe after "issues" with the diluted oil on COLD metal- More research required--
Just a starter point - for inquiring minds. |
Did he train in Wyoming? I live near an old WWII bomber training base.
_________________
If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50332
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: Re: What's wrong with this picture? |
|
|
| williamM wrote: |
maybe after "issues" with the diluted oil on COLD metal- More research required--
Just a starter point - for inquiring minds. |
I read some old article from the SAE on this and they mentioned the amount of gas in the oil that they found acceptable for winter driving and it was quite high, something like 7% IIRC. In the days before multigrade oils fuel dilution was important in getting an engine to start on a cold morning so would have been worth a certain amount of trade off. There were many reasons that 30K miles was once considered as high mileage and gas and water in the oil were major ones. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
