type 4 build thread

[tzepesh]

I've done it myself, pretty easy. See in the link below the list of plugs and which ones need to be removed and plugged. You need the proper drills, taps some sealant and some gun cleaning brushes to clean the oil passages. Say, half a day of work. The job is on several pages because I work very slowly on my engine.
https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=138151&start=45
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[sshulk]

I found a local machine shop that is willing to do the galley plugs, (depending on price) I think I will have them do it. I told them the taps are, 3/18-18 NPT, 1/4-18 NPT, and 1/8-27 NPT, as per rays build thread. Do I need to tell them how deep to go, or what specific needs do I need to tell them?


Additionally,

Would Somthing like this
https://www.csp-shop.com/en/tools/engine-case-measuring-tools-012-140-105g-20122a.html

be good for checking the bore of my case?
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[danielzink]

Have someone that knows VW engines (T4 in particular) do the job.

There is one plug that if done incorrectly will bleed oil pressure and ruin your new engine.


This is not my guide - It's compilation of posts from over the years that I have gathered.

Dan

If you have a case with a stock fuel pump be sure that whoever drills out the galley plugs is aware of the right galley plug behind the flywheel. Drilling in too deeply will cut open the fuel pump pushrod guide and cause a rapid loss of oil pressure. The right galley (oil pressure side) will be open to the inside of the crankcase.

Short guide to oil plug replacement.

Do all 11? NO.
There is really no need to do the little ~5mm ones.
Exception:
You SHOULD replace the small one by the pulley end bearing, it is a "deep" plug that acts as a restrictor and traps garbage.

If you feel you absolutely MUST do all 11, you want 1/16" NPT plugs for the small plugs, NOT 1/8" plugs... Yes, the kits have 1/8" plugs. (Yes, 1/8" plugs will work, they are just not right)

Tip:
You want TWO taps, one full size, and one ground down ~1/4" for a better "bite". The full length one will get things started, but will bottom out in some locations.

Do ALL the ~1/2" ones. (The big 5) as they hold pressure.
Exception:
If the T4 case had a fuel pump on it/has the guide, do NOT drill and tap the one on that side/flywheel end, as the guide IS the plug. You will open a basket of snakes trying...

Do not "do" the big pickup plug... It CAN be carefully popped out from the inside and carefully driven back in with some red locktite. This allows cleaning up the passage. THIS IS USUALLY NOT REQUIRED.


Do NOT put thread sealing compound on the first 2 threads of the plugs. DO NOT USE TEFLON TAPE.

Brass plugs work well. Aluminum plugs work great in an iron block... That's about it .

Brass or steel are the ONLY suitable plugs in an aluminum block.

If the case had a mechanical fuel pump and the case was drilled/tapped for oil passage plugs, and the one at the fuel pump pushrod was "done" (THAT one should be skipped...)
...the pump pushrod guide was drilled through or removed, a large internal oil leak was probably created.

(All the other plugs MUST be replaced simply to allow cleaning of the oil passages, this should be part of ANY decent rebuild, this includes the little "deep" one up at the pulley end )

An additional deep plug will need to be installed to terminate the lifter oil passage or the oil will just go back to the sump via the now open guide passage.


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[raygreenwood]

The type 4 plugs....can all be done without drilling. Use a dremel and sanding drums and/or a carbide burr if necessary...to widen the holes.

The object is to just open up each hole enough to fit the threads in from the taper that need to go there. If you drill the holes...the holes will be straight. Most of the easy to find plugs will be tapered NPT (pipe thread).

Yes...if you look hard enough you can find straight plugs...but rarely in the OD size you need AND with the length you need...AND with an inverted allen key socket hole in the depth you need.

So you will generally be using pipe plugs. And if you drill first....you will need a drill bit that works with the largest part of the taper of the plug you are putting in. And...that large of a hole usually leaves very little for threads on inner/smaller part of the taper.

Most would say just use more tapping pressure...grind a little more and tap deeper...but you cannot do that in some of the very shallow locations like the one mentioned on the 1/2 side of the engine where the fuel pump pushrod guide is (on cases set up for pumps)....without either risking cracking the boss...or bottoming the tap and screwing something up.


Yes...you will need two of each tap. One is normal and one is ground down. BUT....grind just a little off at a time. You will have to grind the tap once..tap some threads...and then grind again to get the final set size.

The object is to first measure the plug that is going in each hole. Some will need a little grinding on the inside end. Measure the small/inner end....then measure the larger outer end.
Then mark those positions on the tap.....and now you can see just how much of each tap must eventually be used in the hole.

At this point...knowing the measurements of the plug....you can carefully use the dremel to clearance the hole at a slight taper instead of drilling.

The un-ground tap is really just to get the starting threads as deep as possible. Thats usually about 1/3 of the total depth in my experience.

First tap grinding operation:.......grind the end of the tap to about midway between the un-ground starting end...and the mark you made that corresponds to the size of the inner/smaller end of the plug you are putting in the hole. Tap as far as it will go.

BEFORE YOU GRIND THE TAP AGAIN:....go around to all of the ports using the same size tap....and work those as much as possible, Because some of the holes are shallower...if you grind the tap too far too early...you may end up needing a THIRD tap to get those started.

Replace ALL of the galley plugs. Its not an issue as to weather the tiny 1/16" plug gets stuff stuck behind it during running....or weather it has any real oil pressure. With age and heat cycling...they can all leak.

This minor issue is that its a potential leak point. the major issue is if the engine has been sitting around for any period of time un-assembled or in storage...you can get all kinds of stuff in the galleys....some of which just crawls in and dies there.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8679180#8679180

The middle of page 1 has part numbers at NAPA for Galley plugs and a few bits and pieces about doing them.


Ray

[sshulk]

Thank you everyone, so im going to have a vw machine shop do them, hes also going to check and line bore the case for me if needed
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[sshulk]

Update for you guys. No I have not given up! I've been working with a Local Club member and organized an opportunity with my school, turning my engine build into a year long project of my senior year in highschool. So with that being said, I get two class periods every day where I get to leave school, go home and dedicate time to work on my Engine.
So the gameplan I have so far with the school year starting back up soon.

Case Machine Work
Removal and Retap all Galley Plugs
Check Case Deck
Check Case Bore
(Check into Balancing Internal Components)

Clean and DeBur the Case

Order DTM Components (Credit Back within one year)
STG 1 Flywheel, Pressure Plate, and Clutch
HD Flywheel Bolt Set
HD Pressure Plate to Flywheel Bolts
Pulley

Order P&C Kit
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Cast-Piston-Biral-Cylinder-Set-2-0L-96mm-x-71mm-p/vw9600t4b71.htm

Balance Internals
Crankshaft, Crank Gears, Connecting Rods, Pistons, Flywheel, Flywheel bolts, Pulley, Pulley Hub, Pressure Plate, Pressure Plate Bolts

Purchase Cam, and Crank Bearings
Camshaft
Crankshaft
Purchase Rod Bearings

Mock Engine Up

From here I will be able to determine my deck height, and determine the flycutting, so I can finally get my heads! I cannot thank Len Hoffman enough for his patience.

Ideally, the goal is to have the engine completed before June 1st of 2020.

Thanks for following along! Ill keep it posted!
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[sshulk]

Hey Guys, Im getting close to bringing all my internals to the machine shop. All I need to do is remove the old Dist. drive gear and Cam drive gear. I have a gear puller that my buddy loaned me but Im not sure it will fit around the cam gear. Is there another way I can heat it up and take it off? Also any tips for installing the gears on the new crank? I know to put the bearing on beforehand. Thanks.
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[Wreck]

you need a good puller with a bearing plate attachment , ask the machinist if they can remove the gears .
heating up the gears is the best way to refit . if you haven't researched fitting a crank assembly back in the case you need to do this .don't refit the bearing and gears before trial fitting the crank and bearings in the case half. There are simple tips that make the job easier .
You need to make sure all the bearings fit onto the dowels and the crank spins freely . A lot of engines have been destroyed because people did this step wrong .

[chrisflstf]

The puller fits under the cam gear and pulls both off at the same time. Save the keys

[raygreenwood]

Also be careful. DO NOT tear up the crank gear. Unlike type 1...you cannot buy NEW type 4 timing gears except for straight cut.

Ray

[sshulk]

Bad news. I received a phone call this afternoon from the machine shop. He told me that when he was doing the galley plugs, he went to deep and a piece broke off. He recommends to epoxy it. That doesnt seem right to me. Think Ill be looking for a new case

on a brighter note, I got the crank gears off. Heres some pictures of what I was left with. How do they looks?

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[overdrive]

That's not even a galley plug

[Wreck]

Get the guy to get the case TiG welded at his cost , don’t get talked into epoxy . It will fail at some point and you will lose all oil pressure . As stated that was not a plug and shouldn’t have been drilled .

[Clatter]

WTF!?!

Sorry to hear this is happening to you.
I'd be looking for another case, as well as another machinist.

Time to start learning to do it yourself.
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[sshulk]

some good news. Found a bus short block from a 78 to 79 2.0 bus. it dropped a valve supposedly. And he said it’s probably been sitting since early 2000. He said 150. And he thinks about 80 90,000 miles but he’s not sure. Another option would be a complete 914 motor, he wants 500, and he’s only 15 minutes away. I’ll upload some photos of the short block shortly, what do you think? I figure I can get another set of gears from the Crankhe said 150. And he thinks about 80 90,000 miles but he’s not sure. Another option would be a complete 914 motor, he wants 500, and he’s only 15 minutes away. I’ll upload some photos of the bus short block shortly, what do you think? I figure I can get a new set of gears from the crank. it shouldn’t matter that I dropped a valve because I’ll be only needing the case anyways correct?
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[sshulk]

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[calvinater]

You seem to have an endless supply of money , so keep buying, you will eventually get what you need.
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[Wreck]

Your other case is fixable , easy for someone good with a TIG , most type 4 cases are aluminium which is easy to weld for a competent welder . it does not matter if the oil gallery gets filled with weld because it can be drilled out .

Just get the machinist to organise to fix it . simple .

If the 914 engine is a 2 lt it may be a good buy but you won't know till you pull it down . I suggested at the start of this that you get an engine . Strip it , clean it then re assemble and run it .( I had to do this as an apprentice as part of my training).

A 2 litre 914 with a slightly better cam, (say a cheap scat C35) a set of 40mm IDF's with a cheap cut down bus header from ACnet would surprise you no how well it would go , for the the dollars spent .

[sshulk]

OK new update, so I went back to where I originally got my engine from, and he supplied me with the new case. From there I shipped it out to Fat Performance. they checked the case and it needed a line bore, and thrust cut. I also had them drill and tap the galley plugs, and cut me a set of main bearings. After this I got the case back and brought it to friends transmission shop to clean it up. so first I scrubbed and cleaned it with the solvent cleaner

After a long day of scrubbing both case halves we put it into the hot wash

after this we put them in for a few rounds with the ultrasonic cleaner. I’ve never actually seen these awesome machines in action so it was pretty cool to see everything working. After it came out the case was looking really good.

Here’s a shot of the inside of the case

my only concern was I noticed a chip where the oil cooler seal goes. Is this a problem?

I didn’t clean the galleys with any brushes because there was no nylon ones, only metal. but the ultrasonic cleaner should have cleaned them? I attached a video of me going over the case here, just showing that all around cleanliness and I showed some shots of the galleys. what do you guys think?


Link


Lastly, it’s finally time to start mocking up the case.. I think? LOL should I have my internals balanced before I start mocking everything up? The pistons and cylinders shipped today so they should be here soon.
[/youtube]
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[bugguy1967]

Mock first, then balance. With a stock stroke, you won’t have any issues. It’s still good practice.
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