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Engine noise when not under load.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:43 am    Post subject: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Hello, my first post in the engine world. I have a stock 36 thatís been steadily developing a rattle when the engine is not under load, going down hill, or right before shifting from third to fourth gears and occasionally from second to third. This only happens after itís well warmed up. Any clues? Doesnít run hot, and compression is great, no smoke. I recently bought another 36 that I have torn down but havenít figured out what is worn out and what I should keep. P.O. said it has 60,000 miles on it. After cleaning the pistons I noticed a stamp that said 55... also markings of what number the piston is but not in the right order, which makes me think this motor has been rebuilt before. Everything seems to be genuine VW stuff. Iíve been reading some great posts on this forum and learning a lot. I have the bently book, the idiot book and the haynes.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

A rod bearing going bad will make noise on the way down in the rpm range. Say if you free rev the engine, the engine won't make the noise upon reving up to rpm, but will make the noise coming back down to idle. When the oil thins out from heat, you wouldn't have as much of a cushion of it between the bearing/crank. Maybe put an oil pressure gauge on the engine, and see what you get.

Another thing that would make noise without a load is the flywheel coming loose. You could remove the starter, and rotate the flywheel back n forth with a screw driver, while having someone watch the crank pulley to see if the movements are the same.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Any rattle pretty much that will not go away if other than a loose valve lash is rod bearings. Tear it down fast and see if you can save the crank.
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

A common cause for a rattling noise is excessive camshaft end play. My 1300 had a rattling noise at idle, which was caused by 0.037" camshaft end play.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Don't forget transmission noises too
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Cam gear coming loose will make noise at idle but not at higher rpm.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Mine had a noise when it warmed up also. Sounded like a rod knock. Took it apart and found the cam follower guide in the bottom of the case with the lock tab.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Piston to wrist pin clearance, or wrist pin to rod small end clearance to great.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Good stuff, thanks everyone.
Merry Christmas!!!
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calexican
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
A common cause for a rattling noise is excessive camshaft end play. My 1300 had a rattling noise at idle, which was caused by 0.037" camshaft end play.


what is the procedure for fixing camshaft end play? i can move it back and forth quite a bit.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Pulled the engine and starting my first rebuild. Inspired by the Grapes of Wrath thread, I've already spent my budget on another engine, so I will try to work both engines into one decent one.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I wonder if this Teflon plug was the offending noise? All the other fittings were the clips....
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calexican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Are these wrist pins too worn? They feel pretty smooth compared to others I have.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also is this head ok to reuse?


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

It's unfortunate that the cylinders got broken like that. It will be ok to use them though. Those pins look good. How do they feel? They normally don't wear, the bushing inside the rod is what wears and that is part of rod sizing and re-bushing that the machine shop does everytime you rebuild one.
There are 80mm big bore kits now for the 36 horse engines I think they require the case to be machined and I am not sure what else. What do yours measure? AA Pistons Stock 36 Check the wrist pin dia too.

You know I think the noise was just the valve train or an old split case transaxle going out if you have one. How does the cam look?
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calexican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

thanks for that information. i can't spend anymore money on this, but it's good to know that stuff is out there for when i have to do this again. i am pretty sure the split case tranny is ok. i actually have other cylinders, but i am not sure about mixing them up, i wanted to use this one because it is vw, the others i have are aftermarket.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Be sure and take the bottom end apart and inspect the cam. These cars have been sitting around for years and moisture pitting on the cam can lead to excessive cam lobe wear. Keep your push-rod cam followers matched to their position.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Iím avoiding taking the bottom apart. There is very little, or no end play and I think that was the problem with the last engine, and the case was leaky. Iím going to go with the original pistons and cylinders and put the newer heads on and see what I got. Iíve learned a lot just taking these two engines apart. I will take the leaky case apart at some point and see what thatís all about.
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calexican
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

ďKeep your push-rod cam followers matched to their position.ď

Do you mean put them in the same order they came out? Iíve already mixed them all up...oops.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

You're going to have to have them re-surfaced and I would run a new cam too. You have to take it down! For one thing, it's so easy to do now.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Engine noise when not under load. Reply with quote

Danwvw wrote:
You're going to have to have them re-surfaced and I would run a new cam too. You have to take it down! For one thing, it's so easy to do now.


If he didn't split the case how can he mix up the lifters?
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