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Wolf1
Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2003
Posts: 150
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 Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:30 am Post subject: steering box |
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Hi !
I have been told that the split buses have different syle of steering boxes, can anyone here tell me for sure how it is ?
I have a 1957 bus that need a new steeringbox, but what years will I be abel to use ??
Thanks / Wolf |
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Re: steering box |
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| Wolf1 wrote: |
Hi !
I have been told that the split buses have different syle of steering boxes, can anyone here tell me for sure how it is ?
I have a 1957 bus that need a new steeringbox, but what years will I be abel to use ??
Thanks / Wolf |
'55-'67 will fit and work fine. there were a couple manufacturers. you want a ZF box which is by far the most common. there were also ATE boxes, and later brazillian TRW boxes (the TRW boxes use a late bus pitman arm, which some classified sellers claim to know nothing about)
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:22 am Post subject: |
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if you use a trw box, which seems to be the box everybody has if its new, you will have to modify your mounting bracket or buy a new one. the reason for the different bracket is b/c the shaft area on the new box where it sticks through the bracket has a larger diameter, so it will not mount on your og bracket.
lind, have you any good info on the new trw boxes? are they pretty good quality, or is it better to get a ate or zf box that has been rebuilt.
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Lind
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Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| abeed wrote: |
if you use a trw box, which seems to be the box everybody has if its new, you will have to modify your mounting bracket or buy a new one. the reason for the different bracket is b/c the shaft area on the new box where it sticks through the bracket has a larger diameter, so it will not mount on your og bracket.
lind, have you any good info on the new trw boxes? are they pretty good quality, or is it better to get a ate or zf box that has been rebuilt. |
the TRW boxes work fine, but you have to smack the frame pretty good with a sledgehammer to make them fit. it is not much, but it is enough to make most people queasy.
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j.pickens
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Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9789
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: |
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How do I calibrate my sledge hammer for that bashing?
Is there a photo or measurement to do the deed?
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Lind
Samba Member
Joined: November 06, 2000
Posts: 9915
Location: idaho
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
How do I calibrate my sledge hammer for that bashing?
Is there a photo or measurement to do the deed? |
I don't have any photos. when you go to slide the TRW box in, you will see where it doesn't fit. it is only a few millimeters. I don't think that it is that big of a deal, but when it comes to pounding on the frame with a sledgehammer, you have to really want to do it. I don't think that anyone could tell that it had been something that was done to the bus, unless they were very specifically looking for it.
the bigger issue that I see is that you have to find a late bus pitman arm, which is be difficult to remove without a pitman arm puller. (and by late, I don't mean a '68 bus pitman arm, I mean later than that, but I don't know the exact years.)
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Wolf1
Samba Member
Joined: October 23, 2003
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks guy´s 
wolf |
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kasper
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Joined: March 03, 2003
Posts: 138
Location: Colorful Colorado
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| Posted: Sat May 01, 2010 7:59 am Post subject: trw box |
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Here are some pics of a TRW steering box. Can you tell me if it will fit a '65 bus. Thanks, Eric
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Eugene64
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Joined: December 26, 2017
Posts: 16
Location: MX
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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Hi Kasper,
I have the same steering box, and was fitted in a '64 Split Bus.
Here are some pictures of the steering box.
Do you ever have the chance to open the steering box?
Which steering oil or grease did you use?
Thanks
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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The Bently says you can use gear oil or grease in all steering boxes; I would think a TRW box would be the same. Some have suggested using John Deere corn head grease in place of the VW "special grease."
What does your TRW box have in it now?
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"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Eugene64
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2017
Posts: 16
Location: MX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: Re: steering box |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
The Bently says you can use gear oil or grease in all steering boxes; I would think a TRW box would be the same. Some have suggested using John Deere corn head grease in place of the VW "special grease."
What does your TRW box have in it now? |
Right know it has gear oil, I haven't opened the box yet, but I'm guessing it is oil because it has been leaking from the bottom hole (where the horn cable comes out) and from 'lock' holes located in the steering column.
This 'leaking' concerns me because the box it's supposed to be fully sealed, but I guess oil is fluid enough to pass thru the steering worm ball bearings.
I would have to open the steering box to see what's inside. |
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Eric&Barb
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Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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Gear boxes are not sealed, but more cupped upward open to the steering column tube. The point the ground wire goes in the base of the box has a pipe welded to that plate so oil does not flow out around the wire.
Gear oil is best. VW did go to grease in the late 1960s, but in the early 1970s went back to gear oil. Grease especially in cold weather gets worked away from the moving parts that it is supposed to be lubricating. Then you have dry metal parts grinding against each other. So you want something that will flow back even in cold weather.
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Eugene64
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2017
Posts: 16
Location: MX
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Gear boxes are not sealed, but more cupped upward open to the steering column tube. The point the ground wire goes in the base of the box has a pipe welded to that plate so oil does not flow out around the wire.
Gear oil is best. VW did go to grease in the late 1960s, but in the early 1970s went back to gear oil. Grease especially in cold weather gets worked away from the moving parts that it is supposed to be lubricating. Then you have dry metal parts grinding against each other. So you want something that will flow back even in cold weather. |
So, what you are saying is that (this is just an example) if I turn 180° both column and gear box against its 'natural' position an oil leak could be possible? The gear oil would flow through the column tube until it spills at the lock holes or any other hole.
Which gear oil do you recommend? Any particular brand?
thanks again Eric. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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Yes exactly, turn the cup upside down and out will pour the gear oil from the top of the column.
We use a Sta-lube gear oil that is a GL-4, think it is a 85/90Wt.
Other options:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:57 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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Does the bottom plate or side cover have a gasket?
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WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24736
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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The German ones have a gasket and shims on the bottom plate. More than likely the side plate does also. Easy enough to make such out of yellow page book material, have done that for RGB successfully for years.
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| The German ones have a gasket and shims on the bottom plate. More than likely the side plate does also. Easy enough to make such out of yellow page book material, have done that for RGB successfully for years. |
Thanks, I have an ATE box that I want to open up/clean and fill with fresh oil.
Looks like there are as many opinions on steering box lube as there are for GL4 vs GL5 gear oil.
Looks like John Deere corn head grease is a #0, There is a grease used in gearboxes of riding mowers that is a bit thinner #00 which I would think would be closer to the original VW steering box grease. Anyone have thought on it?
_________________
WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Bruce Amacker
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Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Eugene64
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2017
Posts: 16
Location: MX
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: Re: steering box |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
| Does the bottom plate or side cover have a gasket? |
Yes, both have gaskets.
Side cover has paper gasket
and the bottom plate a metal gasket.
I'm planning to open the box today so I will post some pictures of the process, it may be helpful for future reference. |
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hazetguy
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2001
Posts: 10773
Location: iT StiNgeD iTseLf tO dEAd
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| Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: steering box |
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the bottom metal plates are not really gaskets. they are specific thickness shims to set the preload for the column bearings.
don't mess them up or lose them.
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