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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:14 pm Post subject: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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We are about to remove the transmission from a 2002 to send it for an overhaul, it is slipping bad in 1st and 2nd with 206k miles.
We have a full lift and transmission jack at our disposal and suspect the easiest route would be to lift the van and lower the transmission out.
The engine runs well although it may be wise to do timing guides? From what we've read this can be done in the vehicle once the transmission is out?
We have a compilation of threads for reference on the timing chain although not much on the transmission removal. I have access to alldatadiy.com which has a pretty basic process for transmission removal but I'm not sure how helpful alldatadiy actually is.
I read Cole's thread when he first dropped his transmission to access the timing guides, there wasn't much documentation although it sounded as though he dropped it leaving the engine in place as well.
In preparation for this job, does anyone have suggestions for special tools or process, or thread links we should consider or follow?
Thanks |
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Zeitgeist 13 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009 Posts: 12103 Location: Port Manteau
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Other than undoing the axles and accessing the bolts at the rear of the bellhousing, couldn't you do most of the trans removal from the front of the van? At least that's the impression I got when I was servicing our van earlier this year.
It's hard to tell due to all the spaghetti in the way, but most of the forward part of the trans is accessible from that vantage point. _________________ Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik? |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:25 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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So is your suggestion to pull the front off for access and still leave the engine in and drop the trans from below? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Once the front is off, pick the engine and trans, deliver to bench, split and have at it. Seals, guides, all will be a snap with the engine out.
Cherry picker from HF, 150 less 20% coupon, less 75 recouped when done _________________ .ssS! |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Abscate wrote: |
Once the front is off, pick the engine and trans, deliver to bench, split and have at it. Seals, guides, all will be a snap with the engine out.
Cherry picker from HF, 150 less 20% coupon, less 75 recouped when done |
Do you think even with a 4 post lift and trans jack at our disposal that it's easier to just pull the whole unit out the front?
If we go that route, is all the electrical and plumbing pretty straight forward? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Mark and tag everything , take lots of pics.
Alldata reports 12.5 hours for removal and installation of engine with no disassembly, so that gives you a idea of time. _________________ .ssS! |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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I know I've seen this before but cannot locate my bookmark at the moment...
Once we have the engine and transmission out, we plan on servicing the timing guides for good measure.
In addition to the guides (we plan on using a vr6 timing kit from either ECS or europarts-sd), we are thinking of replacing:
-main seal
-water pump
-thermostat and housing
-install transmission cooler
Aside from these, are there other no-brain'r items to replace while its out? (EG- valve cover gasket, sparkplugs...?) |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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markcm2 wrote: |
Aside from these, are there other no-brain'r items to replace while its out? (EG- valve cover gasket, sparkplugs...?) |
Valve cover and sump gaskets, front and rear seals; exhaust manifold gaskets.
I also opted to replace all of the bushings and ball-joints in the front suspension and steering. A minor PITA, even if you own a press, but it's nice knowing the suspension should be good for another 100k+ miles. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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xavior12 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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If your doing chains and all. Do the intermediate shaft sprockets, both of them!
Also do the "Crack Pipe" as its called. Its the water pump to T-stat housing. I always use the dealers parts for O-rings and plastic items. I'd also get a new radiator. and replace any suspect hoses or after run pump. |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:17 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Plumbing and electrical out of the way now
Any tips on disconnecting exhaust?
Where are the engine pick points?
Is it just the 2 engine mounts and one transmission mount holding it in?
Any tips for keeping axle from rotating when removing half shafts?
Any tips for yarding the engine out once mounts disconnected?
Thanks
Last edited by markcm2 on Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Stripped66 Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2005 Posts: 3467 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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markcm2 wrote: |
Plumbing and electrical out of the way now
Any tips on disconnecting exhaust?
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Remove the down-pipe at the joint near the gas tank, and at the exhaust manifold. You can access the nuts at the exhaust manifold using a long extension and universal-joint.
If you do not remove the down-pipe, but only unbolt it from the exhaust manifold, you will not be able to lift the engine off of the exhaust. The way the engine rotates as you lift it, the flex-coupling and the inability to keep the down-pipe from rising will prevent this. You will have to unbolt the exhaust manifold from the cylinder head to free the engine (I had to do this as I did not disconnect the down-pipe near the gas tank, and my van is sitting on a scissor lift where I cannot access it).
markcm2 wrote: |
Where are the engine pick points?
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Passenger rear side of the cylinder head (metal tab); driver's rear side of the block, midway down by the lower timing cover (cast into the block). If you're removing the engine/trans as one unit, you can also use the metal tab on the top of the transmission that holds the selector cable. This is probably frowned upon, but I used it and it seemed fairly robust.
markcm2 wrote: |
Is it just the 2 engine mounts and one transmission mount holding it in?
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Yep. Don't forget Murphy will be there pulling everything back towards the engine-bay every chance he gets.
markcm2 wrote: |
Any tips for keeping axle from rotating when removing half shafts?
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Large screw-driver stuck through the vents of the rotor, braced against the caliper.
markcm2 wrote: |
Any tips for Harding the engine out once mounts disconnected?
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Not sure what you're referring to here. I use a lot of swearing during most maintenance and repair of my EV, so perhaps liberal use of foul language will help when Harding the engine, whatever that means. _________________
66brm wrote: |
Bodacious wrote: |
Why not just make a custom set of wires with a Y splice in them. Then you could just run one distributor. |
I don't think electrickery works that way |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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ANy advise for releasing the driver side engine mount? That’s all we have left.
Do we remove the two horizontal ~13mm bolts at the base of the mount where the mount attaches to the engine or transmission? |
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xavior12 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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The engine mount, yes unbolt it at the top and then at the engine.
Make sure theres no load on the bolts! |
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xavior12 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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And the Trans mount, unbolt the nuts on top and then lower to gain access the two longer bolts for the mount on trans.
Don't forget the shifter cable and wiring! |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:58 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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OK, it seems as though we have everything released although the half shafts are still pressing against the transmission even though they are unbolted. Is there a trick to relieving the pressure of the halfshaft that are sandwiching the transmission in keeping it in place? |
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xavior12 Samba Member
Joined: September 25, 2006 Posts: 92 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:41 pm Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Well. I thought you had them pulled?
Unbolt the lower ball joint at the spindle. You need a triple square 12mm tool.
Or unbolt the front bolt on the control arms? Drivers side is already a tight spot, don't cut the CV boot on the subframe!
You could also unbolt the jack-shaft on the passenger side of trans. Unbolt the three bolts on the back of the block and pull straight out. That might give you some room? |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:34 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Thank you for the tips!
We had them unbolted but I’m used to cars like Audi A4 and Passat the have enough play that you can just unbolt and pull away.
We finally got it out but had some mis understanding with the pick points that caused some imbalance but it wasn’t too bad. Although we need to get that figured out before reinstalling the unit.
Bed time now. We will work on splitting trans tomorrow and then taking it in for rebuild.
Last edited by markcm2 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:43 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Nice, I'm reading two days of work? Not bad at all. Lots of $$$$$$ saved, plus you can choose what you want done or not done _________________ .ssS! |
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markcm2 Samba Member
Joined: September 02, 2015 Posts: 505 Location: Bellingham, Washington
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 12:55 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Abscate wrote: |
Nice, I'm reading two days of work? Not bad at all. Lots of $$$$$$ saved, plus you can choose what you want done or not done |
We haven’t been tracking time but I’d guess it took us about 8 hours to get the engine and transmission out as a unit. We put lots of labels on and took notes. Plus we have my assembled 2001 for reference if needed when we put it back together.
Having two people is a huge advantage.
We need to figure out how to stage the engine with the transmission off so we can work on the timing guides. Our riggin right now is not right. It seems the two pick points are mostly toward the back, we also grabbed a point in the lower front a bit to th drivers side; without this 3rd front point it seems like the assembly would want to rip forward really bad?
Also considering a performance cam, I’ve read about people doing that. Any recommendations there? |
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Abscate Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014 Posts: 22568 Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:27 am Post subject: Re: tips before pulling transmission from 2002 |
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Are you using and adjustable leveler ? That will really help putting it back in too. You. Can rest it down not o wood, block it up, then install the leveler in place and crank it back up. _________________ .ssS! |
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